the one thing I didnt want to do: drop a nut into the engine | FerrariChat
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the one thing I didnt want to do: drop a nut into the engine

Discussion in '348/355' started by brogenville, Dec 16, 2012.

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  1. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    Robin
    #1 brogenville, Dec 16, 2012
    Bad day in the garage guys... it started off well enough- i had just fitted new hill engineering besrings,new timing belt, and degreed all 4 cams. I was in the process of refitting my freshly painted cam covers when I dropped a 10mm nut onto the exposed cams. The little bastard fell down into the recess where the valve springs sit, and then tinkle tinkled down into the depths of the engine. Bugger.

    So my question to whomever has stripped down a 348 engine is this: what are the chances of finding the nut sitting on the sump pan, or am I staring down barrel of a rebuild?

    Any words of condolence will also be appreciated!

    Cheers,
    Rob.
     
  2. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
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    #2 zakeen, Dec 16, 2012
    Id try with a magnet and a string first. Red Earth ones will get it.
     
  3. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    Robin
    #3 brogenville, Dec 16, 2012
    Alas the oil way that the nut fell down is tucked behind a valve spring. I cant even see the hole, let alone get a magnet down there.
     
  4. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Tim Keseluk
    #4 2NA, Dec 16, 2012
    Magnet (I have about a dozen different kinds for just this kind of problem) first, then try a fiber-optic scope (they're getting cheaper), then start taking things apart until you get it back.

    Leaving it in there without knowing for sure where it went is foolish!

    Think about it, don't rush.

    You'll get it back.
     
  5. want2BSchumi

    want2BSchumi Karting

    May 22, 2008
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    Russell
    #5 want2BSchumi, Dec 16, 2012
    I did the same with a washer a couple years back. See my thread below:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308290

    I fished it out of the sump using a magnet, some safety wire, a long grabber, and a scope from Harbor Freight.

    Best of luck! Hopefully, the scope + magnet trick will work for you too!
     
  6. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

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    #6 MaterMech, Dec 16, 2012
    I have some rare earth supper magnets that are the size and shape of a 10mm nut. I could send one to you and you could try the string trick. Worst case is it is too damn strong of a magnet and will find some iron to stick to before it finds the nut. I think with patience it would work though.
     
  7. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

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    Howard Musolf
    #7 tr0768, Dec 16, 2012
    The Snap On guy was in our shop last week and had a very cool tool that may help you out. It is a spring fingered flexible retrever. The best part is that it has a high intensity light built into it so if and when you need light at the end of the "tunnel" its there. It is a very flexible spring shaft with fingers and rather small in diameter to fit in those hard to get to places. We bought a couple and I believe they were around 35 dollars each.

    Howard Musolf
    1981 308gtsi
    1982 400i Cabriolet
    1994 348 Spider
    1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo
     
  8. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #8 AceMaster, Dec 16, 2012
    Take your time and find that, I wouldn't go any further until you do.
     
  9. deeprivergarage

    deeprivergarage Formula Junior
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    Oct 3, 2009
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    #9 deeprivergarage, Dec 16, 2012
    Sincerely sorry about your situation. I would not start the engine until you get it located and removed.

    Look at a diagram of the engine to see where the possible places are that the nut could have landed or likely to have stopped.

    It may be easier to locate it from the bottom than from the top.

    If you think it made it to the bottom of the engine you can remove the engine oil sump to locate the nut for the price of a gasket and oil.

    There are threads on here regarding removing the sump cover.

    A friend of mine dropped a screw in a spark plug hole (not a Ferrari) and didn't know it until he started the motor. Made a terrible noise and caused some damage.

    Good luck - just another opportunity to bond with your car and a Ferrari adventure to talk about when it is over,

    Jerry
    DRG
     
  10. Sunracer

    Sunracer Formula Junior

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    Pierre Beniston
    #10 Sunracer, Dec 17, 2012
    That really sucks-before you drop a sump I fishing expedition through the drain hoe out to be tried first. Turning engine over by hand may help at some point in the hunt. Just a few thoughts. For the future-rags/tape ove holes Good luck PB
     
  11. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    #11 brogenville, Dec 17, 2012
    My sincere thanks to all those who have left words of encouragement, and it is especially heartening to read threads like thise mentioned above showing that (a) I'm not the first dumb ass to ahve done this, and (b), I should be able to get out of this with my shirt still on. I was actually really impressed by the levels of ingenuity shown- I really didnt think that you would be able to get a magnet into the oil drain hole, especially not without it grabbing onto the head nut- glad to be proven wrong though! In any case, given that the enginer is out and lifted, I think my time may be best spent just taking the sump off. I think that the nut should be in there. Given the noises it made as it fell in, and looking at the diagam attached, I think it would have just gone all the way down. Chances are too that its probably reasonably safe in there, as there is a gauze over the scavenge pump, but knowing its there I just couldnt bring myself to start it.

    [​IMG]
    http://postimage.org/image/ad3ujidih/
     
  12. ncjetskier

    ncjetskier Formula 3

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    #12 ncjetskier, Dec 17, 2012
    Must have been bad Karma yesterday. I was working on the MAFs yesterday and dropped one of the air filter screws (back right one) and could not find it. After 45 minutes, using a magnet, compressed air I still could not find it. As my back started hurting and the curse words started flying, my son asked "whats the big deal, just get another one". I had to explain, it is not loosing the screw that is the problem, it is where that screw may have gone. Sure enough, one hour later, I found it wedged between the axle and the transmission housing in a position that could have easily punched a whole through the transmission housing.

    If it can happen, it will. Good luck.
     
  13. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    #13 brogenville, Dec 17, 2012
    Got the bastit! Took about an hour and a half to get the sump off, and sure enough the little m10 nut was hiding in a pool of the black stuff. certainly take my hat off to those that have gone down the road of genius and ingenuity by taking the non intrusive route, but i reckon that the ignorant approach of just taking things apart was for the best.

    For those interested, there are two large oil drain channels on either side of the engine that run unimpeded to the sump floor. This means that anything dropped cant really get hung up on anything. Whilst he scavenge pumps have pretty solid metal gauze filters over them, the chains at the front of the engine could be vunerable to a forign object. I suspect that that would be an even worse day in the garage!

    Thanks again guys, and apologies for the panic of yesterday. Now i just have to put the whole lot back together. :)
     
  14. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Tim Keseluk
    #14 2NA, Dec 17, 2012
    I knew you could do it.

    Now, drink a beer! :D
     
  15. cuneo

    cuneo Formula 3
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    #15 cuneo, Dec 18, 2012
    Or six!! Congrats on the quick fix. Now you'll never drop a nut again (hopefully!!).
     

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