550 Engine Removal | FerrariChat

550 Engine Removal

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by rmfurzeland, Dec 23, 2012.

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  1. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    Decided to start a new thread on engine removal since my other thread on cylinder head removal has expanded greatly in scope - damaged cylinder liner means engine out.

    Once I have worked out all the steps, I plan to list them in their correct order, but for now I am down to the last few removal steps prior to the hoisting.

    I assume I can separate the engine at the clutch bell housing, but can someone please confirm that this will work? i.e the engine comes out with flywheel and clutch attached and separates at the release bearing (rather than undoing the propshaft/torque tube later on).

    No dis-assembly manual exists but Ricambi's exploded parts diagrams are very useful:

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=324.

    Thanks,
    Ron
     
  2. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,071
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Ron- 575M WSM has illustrated instructions on engine removal. $125 from Ricambi and well worth it for 550 owners when used in conjunction with the 550 WSM.
     
  4. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    Taz,
    Prior to purchase, I would be interested in seeing a sample page or two on engine removal, maybe you could PM me a few,
    Thanks,
    Ron
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,071
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #5 tazandjan, Dec 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    #6 rmfurzeland, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
    Dear all,

    Almost there, stuck at last hurdle, all bell housing bolts are off and I have taken the weight off the engine a bit with the hoist and am trying to move engine horizontally forward.
    Engine moves side to side, so it is free off all obstructions, I can move it about one inch forward so I am clear of all the housing studs but the central shaft seems reluctant to slide further forward. I can see the shaft inside the housing and it has definitely moved forward an inch.
    I will try jack under back end of bell housing tomorrow, any other ideas? Special fork lever tools? Or did I miss something - I have left the clutch slave cylinder untouched, was that OK?
    Thanks,
    Ron

    PS Taz, thanks for photos, funny enough I had just removed power steering tonight, since it is essential to get clearance to move engine forward horizontally. What does it say about freeing the central shaft? Also I am not clear on whether I need to detach the slave cylinder or not.
     
  7. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    possible transmission clutch shaft has a step worn into it. clutch disc can cause this type of problem. rock the transmission and see if it will let the motor slide out
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,071
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Ron- Did you slide the transaxle back (30-35 mm) or remove it as if you were changing the clutch? Nothing on the slave cylinder in the WSM. You need Brian or one of the pros on this. All I have is the manual.
     
  9. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    Big sigh of relief, the engine is out at last. The Maranello mob certainly did not make it easy, the 550 has very little clearance. I wonder how they get a "mid-engine" 599 engine out.

    Here is a list of essential tips:
    1. remove the starter motor earth strap and bolt where it attaches to rear cross member in engine bay, otherwise sump will catch on the bolt . This is where I got stuck before.
    2. remove the air from the tires to lower the cross member so sump can clear (I bet the WSM does not say this !). Do not jack up front of car.
    3. lift the back end of the bell housing with a jack as you lift the engine to keep the housing studs in line with the holes and to support weight of torque tube.
    4. lift the engine with the rear end coming up a little more than the front, rearrange lifting straps so this occurs. Use tip 3 to keep the 2 halves of the housing parallel.

    et voila, a one man job using a Big Red 2 ton hoist. No physical strength required but lots of "thinking outside the box" needed.
    Thanks to Josh at ECS for help in discussing tip 3.

    Regards,
    Ron


    PS Taz, I did not move the transaxle back, maybe it would have helped, is that what the WSM says?
     
  10. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Big congratulations for getting it out Ron!

    Did you wind up leaving the clutch & flywheel on it?

    Now what? Hope you have one very strong engine stand!
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,071
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Ron- Way to go.
     
  12. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    PICTURES!
    PICTURES!
    PICTURES!
     
  13. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    Pete and co.,
    Took some pictures today, will upload tomorrow.

    I am trying to remove the lower half of the crankcase (aka sump) and I notice the oil pump chain links the crankshaft to the lower half of the crankcase. There is an inspection cover below the main timing gear assembly. I know you worked on this in your sorting thread (pages 9 and 10), can I remove this chain through the inspection cover?
    Otherwise I have to remove the cogs like you did.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334008&page=11

    Studying your photos, I have Just realized the main cover gasket also joins the two halves, so I guess I have to remove the whole lot.
    It never ends,
    Ron
     
  14. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Ron,
    If you remove the oil pump cover, so you can see the oil pump drive sprocket, you will note that there is a nut holding the sprocket on the oil pump shaft. If you remove all the nuts and bolts holding the timing cover on, and the bolt holding the oil pump sprocket on, you can remove the oil pump chain, pump sprocket, both gilmer drive gears, and the cover "en bloc", without having to get the gilmer gears out of the bearings that are in the timing cover.
    That's all I can offer there. I've never gone as far as you are going!!!!
    Can't wait to see the photos!

    Regards,
    Pete
     
  15. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    #15 rmfurzeland, Jan 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Photo 1: Big Red 2 Ton hoist (set at 1/2 ton boom extension) , engine out and Big Red 1 (my 550)

    Photo 2: engine bay - everything removed, note jack under rear bell housing to support it and torque tube

    Photo 3: engine minus cylinder heads

    Photo 4: clutch housing splines - one bent - presumably shaft stuck on it a bit during removal. How to reshape? Note the yellow numbers - is this tightening sequence? Also, not shown, there are yellow balance alignment marks on the perimeter for clutch, starter ring and flywheel.

    Regards,
    Ron
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  16. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    Pete,

    You said
    "If you remove the oil pump cover, so you can see the oil pump drive sprocket, you will note that there is a nut holding the sprocket on the oil pump shaft. If you remove all the nuts and bolts holding the timing cover on, and the bolt holding the oil pump sprocket on, you can remove the oil pump chain, pump sprocket, both gilmer drive gears, and the cover "en bloc", without having to get the gilmer gears out of the bearings that are in the timing cover. "

    In my first quick attempt last night, I did remove all timing and oil pump cover nuts and bolts, and then finally the bolt holding the oil pump sprocket but the sprocket did not seem to want to come out with a simple hand pull, did you use a puller or lever? Also the chain is under some tension, did you loosen it first? Do you remember how, there are 2 bolts by the chain guide?

    Even then, to separate the 2 crankcase halves will mean splitting the timing cover gasket in half. I am thinking I at least need to remove the 2 timing cogs using that 4-pronged 7/8" special tool you made and then inspect seals and bearings (hopefully will be OK).

    The good news is the rear cog fence is on solid and no bearing play can be felt, so I hope I dont have the problems you found. I would like to check for "grease oozing" behind the timing cog as Dave Helms mentioned so best to remove the cogs me thinks.
    Thanks,
    Ron
     
  17. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Ron,
    That information on removing the oil pump sprocket came from Brian Crall some time ago. I have not personally done that, but will next time I do a major. Removing the two bolts by the chain guide removes the guide and then the chain is quite loose. However, if you are going to remove the timing cogs anyway you need not bother. Just remember when you replace the gasket for the timing cover to coat both sides of it with a thin layer of RTV, irrespective of the red bead already on there. It will leak otherwise. Ask me how I know... :)
     
  18. JoshECS

    JoshECS Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 3, 2010
    433
    Ashburn,VA
    Full Name:
    Josh Hill
    The timing belt drive gears are supported by ball bearings, which are pressed onto a shaft as well as into the engine case. That is the tension you are fighting. Also, you will need to work the oil pump drive sprocket off in lieu with the drive sprocket keyed onto the crankshaft snout.

    The entire package has to come off in one "linear" motion. I've foudn that the timing belt drive gears tend to fit fairly snug into the inner support bearings, which fit snug into the engine crankcase.

    It will take some patience and tact to work your way around the cover, applying enough force to get everything free without messing up the front cover.
     
  19. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Josh,
    Good advice! In my particular case, although the timing gears fit snugly into the inner bearings (the unsealed ones pressed into the crankcase) they were easily removed by hand. It was the bearings IN the timing cover that were totally frozen to the shafts of the timing gears. I would think that as long as he takes a hold of both timing gear shafts and pulls linearly, that he should be able to remove the entire assembly as one unit (as you alluded to).
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,688
    socal
    Is that a bent pressure plate finger or is it just the photo?

    Were you able to move the engine far enough forward to get it out or did you have to move the bellhouse. Torque tube assembly back?

    I wonder if this engine out would be easier if you separated at the bellhouse to torque tube interface and pull the engine out.
     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,071
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    FBB- The 575M WSM tells you to treat it like you were changing a clutch and push the transaxle back.
     
  22. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    #22 rmfurzeland, Jan 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
    FBB,
    Yes, it is a bent finger (or spline). Everything slid out smoothly once I cleared the cross member. There was a final plop sound as the shaft cleared the fingers, maybe due to the slight tilt angle needed to clear the cross member. Th rear half of the housing was not moved back, I just kept it parallel to the front half by adjusting the jack under the rear half. The finger seems to be very springy steel so will need some persuasion to straighten.
    I assume easy to do?
    Regards,
    Ron

    PS "push the transaxle back" - could somebody outline the steps?
     
  23. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,688
    socal
    see if there is a " friction materials co." In your area they are pretty big. They can replace the fingers and replace the friction linning cheap. Your clutch will then be renewed while you are in there assuming the flywheel is serviceable. When a throwout bearing ages and the t/o bearing is in contact with fingers you get thinning wear of fingers and work hardenning. This means if you bend a finger back you may weaken it and it will fail. Then you will be doing part of this job again. Beware measure everything you get back from FM. They are lazy but know what to do if you know what you want. Look in the wsm for clutch plate specs.
     
  24. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,688
    socal
    I have not done your job on a 550 but many many other 550 jobs. Race a Z06 same engine gearbox layout. Looking at 550 and experience yanking trans engine of Z. Makes me think job is easier if move tranaxle by severing at bellhouse to torque tube connection. That's all. It is not important if you have found success other ways. But you may find on install that linning up engine to bellhouse sliding over pilot bearing etc can be hard. It is easy on a Z anyway to get all the front stuff installed and run the torque tube with transaxle into place. When you get to reinstall and if you have problems linning up just think you have a second strategy. Also you bent fingers on way out. You cant bend fingers if you do the second strategy because the bellhouse will already be on.
     
  25. JoshECS

    JoshECS Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 3, 2010
    433
    Ashburn,VA
    Full Name:
    Josh Hill
    You have to remove the exhaust system, minus the mufflers and headers, disconnect the half shafts, disconnect the shifter linkage, disconnect the trans cooler lines, remove the trans mount bolts, support the torque tube and then slide it backwards until it stops.

    Given the fight it put up during disassembly, it will probably be well worth the time carryign out this procedure before you try to slide the motor back in.
     
    Ferrari_Chas likes this.

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