Enzo Market Value

One thing about an Enzo vs a F70. Even if Enzo ecu's become extinct converting an Enzo to Motec for example isn't a huge issue. The systems and computers needed to run KERS are a LOT more complicated. You can use Motec based systems but there is a HUGE learning curve and the expense to convert P 4/5 C to a KERS car was easily 1mm euros.

KERS cars are very complicated.

 

I agree, and not because I own one! The Enzo platform is an elegantly simple design with outstanding performance potential (e.g., MM Enzo and P 4/5).

But maybe we'll say the same about F70 in 10 years.

 

But Bill, you already have an F40! It doesn't get any better than that!

All of that said, I would like to drive an Enzo one of these days and see how it compares. I have heard that once you put a good amount of miles on one of the Supercars, when you drive one of the others, everything about it just seems to make more sense. I guess that there is a real evolution of the four Supercars. Since I only own one of them, I am sure others are far more qualified to comment.

Jim, I hear you on that. While I do think that alternative power and energy in cars is here to stay, I think that the methods of storage and delivery are going to go through an amazing amount of change and evolution over the next 15 years. Your point will only become more relevant as that time goes on.

 

For fun: based on the feedback for the manual transmission in the 599, how do you think a similar gearbox (the same, perhaps) would fair as a retrofit in an Enzo? Would the extra grip make first gear more usable? What complications would the switch cause? I've seen a few Aston Vanquishes retrofitted with manuals with decent results.

 

You are absolutely correct. People forget this, and I really cannot understand the insistent recent justification for people using the term investment when purchasing their cars. If you are looking for great returns in investments there have been and there are still much better opportunities to invest your money. Unless you are the owner of a very few select early enzo era cars, i.e. 250 swb, California spyders, 250 GTO's and the likes, you will have been outfperformed by a number of other investment classes. Even the recent interest and price increases in F40's and 288's are still lagging, say London property prices, by significant amounts. So the moral is buy because of the love primarily not because you are convinced that's the best investment. I think the majority here do, I hope.......

 

Can you please ask him and share how many RHD 288, F40 and F50's PF completed? Colours and any other details much appreciated if possible.

 

It goes beyond straight financial performance though doesn't it. I own a block of student accomodation, I don't get a lot of fun out of it. It's a good investment though. A lot of people buy these cars now because they are interested in them and it is now deemed a 'sensible' place to put a portion of your money. That and there aren't alot of other places to put your money safely at the moment. You are not going to get rich, certainly not quickly, in 'safe' investments so why not buy a car. It will probably perform ok financially for you, tax free gains and there are the other obvious reasons! Personally it is a passion for me. I too think it is a shame that the prices have gone so crazy as 'non car' people have been piling in. Sure, we get the benefit as existing owners but I would trade some profit on my cars for the opportunity to buy more. Prices do not always go up though, something will happen to correct the market. Always does. It's just where it is enough! Personally, I feel a plateau for a bit....

 

as many ferrari gents i wonder about the enzo market, although the ferrari reds scream the brand a black enzo would contrast the gto

how does giallo and nero do against rosso on resale? thanks in advance for infos

 

Nero does the best in the USA for some unknown reason. Giallo can be difficult to sell. But I suspect you know all this, even before you asked.

 

I would think if you are in a position to buy the new car, the running costs are not going to be anywhere near the front of your mind. It's a bit like tires on a Veyron: $20,000 for tires seems ridiculous, until you think that it's proportionally similar to spending $2000 on tires for a $100,000 car.

I remember looking at the incredible cost Paul Allen paid to have his yacht "Octopus" built, and then the yearly running costs. But when you factor in his net worth, it was the equivalent of me spending $20,000 on a boat and $500 a year to maintain it.

I had the owner tell me the story of picking up his Michelotto prepared 288 GTO, the only car prepared as such. I can only imagine how incredible that must have been. He still has the car, so obviously the experience was worth more than a monetary investment.

 

That sounds like the one-and-only 58337

 

You have no idea how many times I hear, "you have an F40, what does it matter what 'X' costs?" Translation: so somehow, because I own an F40, it's okay for me to throw away money needlessly.

When you're talking about spending a million dollars on a car, you do have options. If you're a real car guy and not just some guy who wants something to turn heads, you do the research to figure out the best option for you. Running costs relative to performance and value factor into it. Also, the relative value of the car to service costs matter, whether you can afford those costs or not.

I can't speak for you and your car buying experience but when I was doing research on buying my F40, running costs, parts availability and pricing were at the absolute front of my mind. For me, it wasn't worth owning the car of my dreams if the costs to make it and keep it perfect were more than I bargained for. I can't believe that I am the only one who looks at things like that. It's an important factor.I'm not one of those guys who buys a car to flip it. I buy it to keep it, drive it, maintain it, and enjoy it. I care about the running costs. I'm doing a very extensive major on my car right now. I am redoing a ton of things. I have taken a bunch of parts off, like the suspension, and sent them out for rebuild and renewal. And I'm doing a lot of that on my own to keep the costs down. I'm not skimping on the work being done - just the opposite, in fact, as I'm going well above and beyond. The car was great before but it's 22 years old. I want it to be like new.

Here's the point, if I couldn't afford to do something like this, I never would have bought the car. As it is, I did a ton of research before on running costs and maintenance costs, and researched all the options available to me. Many people who an afford cars like this don't do that and they are not game to do everything necessary when the time comes because the costs are so exorbitant. It has nothing to do with whether they can afford it or not.

Anyways, it's easy to assume that because someone pays $1mm or whatever for a car that they don't care what the costs are. However, there are alternatives. A 288GTO and F50 cost roughly the same to buy but their running costs are not the same. It makes a difference when someone is plunking down their money.

 

You wouldn't have money for very long with that kind of outlook.

 

A friend of a friend sold his Veyron when he figured out that it was more cost-effective to fly it to where he wanted to drive it instead of driving it there. It's true that costs are somewhat relative to assets when decisions are made, but it's not unbounded.

 

only for very long distances surely? I can't see how it'd be cheaper to fly it.

 

Well the in guy in question didn't think that either until the bills started coming in the door. I'm sure hypothetically there is a point at which it becomes cost effective to fly it somewhere instead. After all, air transport isn't crazy expensive. A set of wheels and tyres is like 20k? I don't know the ins and outs but I do know its stupidly and prohibitively expansive to run a Veyron, when compared to other supercars/Hypercars. It's just an attempt by VW to recoup some of the losses they've made on the project.

 

Back on topic, a gentleman client of mine who has a black/red Enzo was offered $1.75m and he didn't sell. On the other hand cars with miles (in the USA "miles" means circa 10k on) are closer to $1m. A red car with circa 350 miles just sold for $1.75m but not verified by me.

So perhaps the range is $1m to $1.75m+ in the USA, and as with all Supercars, small details result in a big range.

 

Tires are £25,000 for a set and 'last' 2,500 miles. The wheels are £50,000 for a set and only 'last' 7,500 miles, apparently. That's for the regular Veyron.

 

Was the gentleman client of yours looking to sell at the time?

Red interiors in any modern car in the UK are not popular.

 

Why would the wheels need to be replaced?

 

Apparently it's a requirement of Michelin to replace the wheels every third tire replacement to ensure a correct bead seal.

The tyres can of course last much longer but typically 2500 miles. At top speed the tires last about 70 miles..

 

Lol that black and red one belongs to a friend of mine and he is also on this forum.

I asked him whether he would sell for $2mil and he said no.

 

In terms of Enzos and their owners I don't think it's about the money. Most Enzo owners are "comfortable" financially speaking and the difference between $1.5 and $2 million is really secondary to owning the car. So offering a few hundred thousand dollars one way or the other really won't make a difference. That being said most Enzo owners are also most likely astute businessmen so they aren't completely blind to the business side of a transaction. In other words there is likely a price where some owners would undoubtedly sell.

 

And one would probably think much harder if presented with a real offer rather than a hypothetical question.

 

As my father once told me, the value of any one object is the price its owner is willing to part with it for.
I got offered $600 for a stupid hat that collects dust at home, but i wouldn't have sold it even for $1600. The point being, that you don't have to be well heeled to value something higher than what others are willing to pay for it.