Serious question about LdM's 348 comments

Hi all, just got a question if anyone can help.

Everyone knows about LdM's comments about the 348 and his anecdote about loosing at the lights to a hot hatch etc. Thing is it's never made much sense to me. I came across an article from this pratt Angus MacKenzie. I say 'pratt' because not only is the title more than a little inaccurate, in fact it's ridiculous, he also hasn't been bothered to do his research. At least I don't think he has.

Lunch with Luca: The Man Who Really Made Ferrari Famous - Motor Trend Blog

In case the title puts you off, I'll paraphrase a tad. Mackenzie says that he agrees with LdM, largely because he couldn't handle the car himself. He says that LdM said the 348 was one of the worst Ferraris ever and that he never forgot loosing in a traffic light drag race to a guy in a Golf GTI.

Leaving aside the fact that LdM actually said it was the worst Ferrari for some time (how long, no one knows), I just wanted to know about the Golf GTI bit which has never made sense to me. The model at the time was the Golf GTI Mk2, my sister's boyfriend had one, and putting it bluntly it was not even on the same planet performance wise as a 348. Putting it into numbers it was 0-60 in about 8.4 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 16.4 seconds. Yes you are reading those number right. (In fact it actually took till this year's model before the Golf GTI was as quick to 60 as the 348, previous model from 2011 was a full second slower). Now I'm no racing driver but I think even I would smoke a car that's 3 seconds slower to 60 and crosses the 1/4 mile mark, what, 30 odd car lengths back. What am I missing here?

Could it be that MacKenzie is an even bigger pillock than I thought and didn't do any research? Some say the car that smoked LdM at the lights was in fact a Fiat Strada Abarth, one of the quickest hot hatches on the road at the time. Ok so a car that's 0-60 is 8 seconds and 1/4 mile is about 16 seconds, give or take. Still doesn't add up.

When the Ford Escourt RS Cosworth hit the streets 2 years later it was about the quickest hot hatch off the line (if it could really be called a hot hatch) - still just slower than the 348 to 60 and more to the point, 3 seconds slower over the 1/4 mile but it wasn't out at the time so that's not that relevant. What is relevant however is that it gives some idea of how quick a hot hatch could go as the Cosworth's 0-60 was largely due to getting the power down better than its competitors (and a nice turbo charger to boot!)

Truth is, this story is rolled out time and time again but if you look at the cars around at the time it makes no sense at all. Hot hatches in 1990 were not even close to the 348 in performance and I mean not close. Yes the Cosworth, out during the production run of the 348 (but not around at the time of the anecdote) was quick off the line (it was a limited edition car rolled out to the public so it could compete in the World Ralley Championship, which it did pretty well in) but over a 1/4 mile it was not close. Give you an idea - 0-100 it was about 6 seconds slower than a 348!

What people fail to remember was that even the fabled Lamborghini Countach that was in it's final year of production had a 0-60 time only half a second quicker than the 348 in it's final form, most of them on the road at the time though were only quicker than the 348 in a 0-60 dash by about 0.1 second.

And yet people continually say a hot hatch from the period was as quick as a 348 quoting one rather strange drag race. Short answer - no they weren't, not even close. Open to the floor, what precisely am I missing here?

p.s. As an aside I have no issues with LdM at all, in fact I think he has been repeatedly misquoted on this issue. Also think he's done some good things for Ferrari (loss of an open gated manual box aside, obviously).

 

Hi Tim, thanks for the input, not seen you about these parts before.

The thing is it's the anecdote that I just don't get, and people repeatedly refer to it. A traffic light drag race where a 90s hot hatch left him behind. It just makes on sense at all, they were not close performance wise. I actually think a 348 would be quite a bit quicker than a mk 2 Golf GTI round a track but that's more of a guess as it's a while since I've been in an old Golf, but a 348 is a bit quicker than a 308 even round the twisty bits! No I don't want you to prove me wrong!

Hope the prep on the 328 is going well, look forward to seeing you and it back in action.

 

Agreed Tim. I think your phrase "pending driver" is very apt. I'll give any critics that the 348 is not the easiest car to handle, but that doesn't make it a bad car - I hope you agree.

By the way, out of curiosity, where's the WalkerSport '348 buyer's guide'. It's conspicuous by it's absense. If only it was snowy so you had the time to throw one together ......

 

I have one minor correction to something I've said. In almost every recount of LdM's comments about the drag race, including in a press conference a couple of years ago, he recalls that it was indeed a Golf GTI that beat him. So I appologise, Angus MacKenzie clearly did his research better than some who recalled it was a Fiat Strada Abarth, and so it was unfair to call him a pillock. He was merely a pratt for the other things he wrote, especially the title.

So it was a car that was unbelievably slower than a 348 that beat him (the Golf GTI), not a car that was merely ridiculously slower. That's clear then.

 

But here's the question, is it true? Can it conceivably have happened? It's been talked about for years but has anyone actually sat down and said "Wait a minute, that makes no sense at all." Unless you totally screw it up and stall or something, you could sit there and watch the world go by for a couple of seconds in a 348, you'd still catch a Mk2 Golf GTI in short order.

 

Not sure about poor driving or modded cars. Looking at the actual performance difference, you'd have to practically have the handbrake on to loose. Don't see many people talking about how slow the Countach was.....

 

Lol. Was just thinking there's quite a lot of chat about 348s right now, quite a few new owners and perspective owners, and your other 'buyers guides' are excellent - have shamelessly pointed guys looking for the other models towards them. You could always add in that yellow spiders hold their value the best, then edit that bit as required? Just kidding but although all us 348 owner clearly do know everything (no argument there) it's awfully nice to read it from someone who actually does. Especially for the new guys who are looking.

 

The only thing I would say is that the Ferraris sitting in showrooms may have been a problem with another model at the time but although people have been told this, it wasn't actually a snag with the 348. Within the first year of release the waiting time for a Ferrari 348 in the some areas in the States actually hit 5 years - not bad for a car that was only produced for 5 years is it. In the UK the waiting times was aboyt 4 1/2 years at that time.

Luca may have liked to think otherwise but the 348 was in fact a big success at first. Till everyone found out it was slower than a much slower car of course?!?

 

True to a point, Bob, but Luca said it was a GTI, a G60 Limited is still slower to 60 than a 348 by about a second and a half) and a lot slower over a 1/4 mile, and Luca was a racing driver. Will see what I can do with mine though