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365 vs 512 weight

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Newman, Jan 10, 2013.

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  1. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #1 Newman, Jan 10, 2013
    I started to reply to this quote in the testarossa weight thread but decided it was better on its own.

    Ive thought about this weight difference and after taking the very first BB512 apart that was built before the last 3-4 365's were built, I just cant see how anything other than the drysump tank for the most part could be the difference.
    The chassis and body will weigh the same as a 512. There will be a variation in weight through the 365 range because the seats were different through the range and a/c was an option and possibly power windows but im not 100% sure of that last point. Early cars had no louvers in the rear lid, later ones did so the car would get heavier through production up to the intro of the BB512.

    Daves car weighed in at just under 3100lbs, my BBi was 3400lbs which I can understand with all the additional fuel system components, the drysump tank, dry sump pump and lines, wider wheels, dual alternators, wider rear clamshell, heavier seats, factory radio and eq, air, power windows, dual power mirrors (they're heavy), heavier front bumper with spoiler, and more cooling fans.

    Comparing the 76 BB512 to a 76 365 boxer one chassis apart I can only see the drysump tank and pump, (365 should have an oil cooler like a dino which is heavy and has its own lines), wider rear wheels and lid flares and front chin spoiler effecting the weight vs an identically equipped 365. That wont add up to a 300lb + difference, gotta be very close in weight. Since people add the wider 512 wheels to a 365 the wheels are moot.
     
  2. petearron

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    #2 petearron, Jan 28, 2013
    When I weighed my 512Bb at a truck stop it was 3300 with probably 60 to 70lbs in fuel appx 10 gallons at 7lbs per gal, add 12 qts oil 3 gals at 8lbs = 24lbs, radiator fluid= 15lbs, trans oil =10lbs so roughly dry I would be 3150lbs.

    All the a/c components 100lbs, p/w = maybe 15lbs, then the dry sump tank and added motor weight from displacement increase I think 3000 lbs dry for the 365BB is about right IMO.
     
  3. rovexienus

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    #3 rovexienus, Jan 29, 2013
    In case it can help, sometime back I weighted a 365 BB (from 1975) and a 512 BBi (from 1983) using a single wheel weight scale (not very accurate I am afraid) in identical conditions and got the following result for an empty gas tank, but with fluids in engine and gearbox:

    365 BB 1,400 kg= 3,080lbs
    512 BBi 1,460 kg= 3,212lbs

    This 365 BB has 415mm metric wheels with TRX, exactly like the 512 BBi
     
  4. Newman

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    #4 Newman, Jan 29, 2013
    Thanks for the input! That debunks the 365 myth of being a 1000lb less than a 512 that Ive seen claimed here. Just didnt make sense considering its the same car. Nice to see a back to back weight check. Thanks again.

    P
     
  5. DWR46

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    #5 DWR46, Jan 29, 2013
    Our 365 Boxer with all fluids, toolkit, jack and spare tire, but no fuel weighs 3,225 lbs on our race scales. Most 512 Boxers that we have weighed come in at 3,400-3,450 lbs under the same conditions.
     
  6. Newman

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    #6 Newman, Jan 29, 2013
    Tell us more about the options on the cars, year and market, DOT converted or not. Wheels, exhaust, a/c. Ill assume the 512 had its a/c in place?
     
  7. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    #7 JazzyO, Jan 30, 2013
    1000lb would be almost 30%. That would never make any sense.


    Onno
     
  8. Newman

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    #8 Newman, Jan 30, 2013
    Agreed but there are some 365 owners that still insist.
     
  9. fastradio

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    #9 fastradio, Jan 30, 2013
    Heard a lot of myths about Boxers...can't say that I recall hearing that one.
     
  10. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #10 fastradio, Jan 30, 2013
    Seems that Paul and I had this discussion a few years ago and really couldn't account for more than a few hundred pounds difference between a 365 and a BBi. Then again, reading the Ferrari-provided propaganda, I can see where the (alleged) weight differences come from.
     
  11. DWR46

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    #11 DWR46, Jan 30, 2013
    Newman: 365 Boxer #18xxx, A/C, factory exhaust, factory (original) wheels, a completely stock car, with European spec (no DOT or EPA mods). Do not recall the specs of the 512's, but believe they were also unmodified cars.
     
  12. petearron

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    #12 petearron, Jan 30, 2013
    I could see a DOT modded Bb weighing 3450, the 1978 Road and Track article with a DOT 512BB weighed 3450.

    My 512BB is a Euro around 3100 dry seems accurate from my 3300 wet weight at scales.
     
  13. Newman

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    #13 Newman, Jan 30, 2013
    Its your selective memory again. Thoughts on Williams BBi test drive? We've all talked about the weight thing and we've pretty much beat it to death. You've heard the 1000lb claim because we've talked about it on the phone in the past.

    Its nice to hear some believable numbers especially when weighed on the same day with the same scale, cant argue that.
     
  14. Newman

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    #14 Newman, Jan 30, 2013
    Thank you very much!
     
  15. fastradio

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    #15 fastradio, Jan 30, 2013
    I remember now. You told me that you/! read that the BBi was 1000 lbs heavier than the 365bb. We both didn't believe it, as it just didn't seem possible. Yet, Ferrari showed a weight of 2,720 lbs for the 365bb which I found to be b.s. as she weighed 3090 lbs wet. But I posted that info quite some time ago. I think we both agreed that a couple of hundred pounds was viable. As much as you like to disagree with me, you actually agree with me on that point. Go figure! Regarding my drive in Williams car, it didn't seem any heavier than mine and pulled quite nicely. Throttle response was crisp but nowhere near as violent than a 365. I guess it was not the "Choir boy" that I had remembered from my first drive in a BBi about 10 years ago. They're two very different cars, that's for sure. Oh...and speaking of my selective memory, I almost forget to tell you that those fish tacos that William introduced us to while Lori and I were out there were awesome!!!

    Great cars, different and special....Onward!
     
  16. wlanast

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    #16 wlanast, Jan 30, 2013
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    I think I posted somewhere before, but here are my numbers on very accurate corner balancing scales.

    My car is stock, including the heavy stock 4 can exhaust weight that Newman embarrassingly posted for all to see, lol!, had 3/4 tank of fuel, spare, tool kits and even additional floor mats aboard.

    Also, does not have 5mph bumpers but does have door beams. I do have 17" Speedlines, but I don't imagine there is any appreciable difference b/t them and the TRX stock package. Full disclosure.

    Seems about right that a road ready the 365 is around 200lbs. less, so my findings are very close to DWR46
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  17. geno berns

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    #17 geno berns, Jan 31, 2013
    Hope this is not to far of the subject. While leaving the Jet Center party from the Cavallino event in Palm Beach this past Thursday I drag raced a 360 Spider (the red SWB that was also leaving floored it and got away from us making an amazing sound). Starting from dead stop at a red light we were dead even for up to about 80 mph. The 360 Spider's curb weight is 3,197 lb. 0-60 mph is 4.4 sec. All I am saying that the 365 BB is one quick lite car that feels considerably faster than my BBi and almost as fast as a Down Draft Countach.

    Geno
     
  18. Newman

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    #18 Newman, Feb 1, 2013
    Choirboy! I refer to my BBi as that all the time which I stole from Onno so he deserves credit on that lol. I read not too long ago that a converted BB was estimated at 3650lbs and a euro 365 at 2700lbs. Seems like a fully laden converted car compared to a dry car to me.
     
  19. fastradio

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    #19 fastradio, Feb 1, 2013
    As I recall, after a whole bunch of jibber-jabber, we came to that same conclusion...
     
  20. Cobraownr

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    #20 Cobraownr, Feb 1, 2013
    Atta boy, Geno! Geezers rule! I'm referring to your car, not you!
     
  21. geno berns

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    #21 geno berns, Feb 1, 2013
    LOL!

     
  22. Gleggy

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    #22 Gleggy, Feb 3, 2013
    Oh yeah I remember that car...............the one with the funny grill, has anyone seen it lately?
     
  23. Newman

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    #23 Newman, Feb 4, 2013
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  24. flat-12

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    #24 flat-12, Feb 4, 2013
    I have heard, that the diffenence in weight between a 365BB and a 512BB is only about 50kg, don't know if that is true but it seems realistic to me.
     
  25. Gleggy

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    #25 Gleggy, Feb 4, 2013
    Clearly that pic was taken before you got your hands on it.LOL
     
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