Quick question about 458 Spiders...

Is a 458 worth 15 Camry's? Hell no.

But we don't want 15 Camry's. That's the point.

 

I doubt anyone on here wants one bad enough to get ripped off on something that will be a dime a dozen on ebay in 1 year.

 

Get your dime ready.

The point is you pay for something what you think it is worth. If you think it's worth 400K, and you have it, you'll pay for it.

It's called Free Market Capitalism and it works pretty well.


There are guys lining up right now to pay 20 to 50 over MSRP for the new Vette. You don't think that's going to be money wasted?

 

+458

When you are a geezer and retired (aka disease of the month club) waiting 2 years might not be an option.

Or you could pay more $ in estate taxes and not have a 458 Spider. LOL

It is all about sex after all, isn't it.

 

4 years ago my Doctor told me I had a week to live if I didn't get a quad bi-pass the next day.

Believe me, 2 years seems like an eternity when faced with that.

 

Too bad we don't live in "Free Market Capitalism". Last time I checked the government issues money and is the largest prescence in the marketplace. Worked great when people paid 2-3x for homes too right?

Point is market participants are not rational especially when everyone is dealing with inflated government funny money. Yes the 458 is a GOOD car, but its not 400k good just because the roof comes off. Infact it isnt even 250k Good. I spent extensive time with one and nearly went through an intersection when the brakes decided not to work. People need to grow up and stop believing the hype. When you start realizing that 400k buys a Scud + an Mp4-12c or a F430 Spyder + 458 coupe anyone with 2 brain cells functioning would realize they are getting ripped off.

 

The market does not lie. Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Period.

 

The market is always correct, always.

There is probably one good Yugo in the US. There are probably ten 250 GT0's.

The average price for those 10 GTO's -- maybe 6 million.

The price of that one good Yugo -- well you could say "priceless" as no one wants it but think someone would pay 200 bucks.

THE MARKET IS ALWAYS CORRECT, ALWAYS.

BTW: every super car is overhyped. None of them live up to their lofty expectations. You buy one despite knowing this. You do that because you want one anyway.

 

A sucker is born every minute.

 

The few dealers I have contacted have been $50k over MSRP. They will negotiate a little.

Trade-in: don't get your hopes up. Dealer has the advantage in Colorado cuz sales tax is based on the net deal.

BTW: had a triple by-pass in 1996. Living on borrowed time. How things look all depends on where you are sitting. Don't be too quick to judge unless you know all the facts. Many assume people are like them. Everybody is unique. Ciao.

 

You just like to argue, don't you.

Ask Napolis if the market is always correct. I tend to believe him.

 

In Nevada, you get the full value of the trade taken off your new sales tax. Is that not true in CO? In California, they totally screw everyone. You pay full sales tax if you trade or don't trade anything.


If you traded a car for 20 grand for another car worth 20 grand, you pay sales tax of 20 grand in CA for the new car. You already paid sales tax on the first one.

A complete RIP OFF of the consumer.

 

That is my understanding.

BTW: Trillion of $ trade in financial markets every business day. Half think it's a sell, half think it's a buy.


In CO you pay ST on the net trade not the gross.

 

Don't mean to piss on your lawn, but there is something called market failure, google it.

 

Market failure is still... the market.

The value of anything is what a person will pay for it at any given time.

If someone wants to pay 400K for a spider, they will. If no one does, the price will drop until someone does.

The market is always correct.

 

Why not?
There are all kinds of disorders.
One of my managers thinks Rosie O'Donnell is the most beautiful woman he's ever seen.......

 

With thinking like that I am surprised your manager can even manage to give himself a day off

 

"The market is always correct" in what sense? often there are impediments to the market working properly, e.g., the market price is the fair price when both buyers and sellers have access to the same information.

Say, for instance, the dealer has better information than you the customer. He tells you it will take 5 years to get to the top of the list for a new spider while the dealer knows it will only take a year. But, wait dealers never lie to make an extra buck or a few tens of thousands in this case, do they? oh yes they do.

You, the customer, on the other hand make your mind about what price to pay based on what you think the availability of new spiders is going to be. So, if you buy into the story of the 3-5 year wait, you pay $50-100K over sticker.

Is this the fair market price? no, it's an artifact created by infromation asymmetry between the seller and the buyer and the price will correct when the correct information is revealed to all potential customers in the near future. That is, when there will be glut of spiders in the second-hand market (just as it happens now with italias) and much less demand for new spiders.

 

Congrats Phil on your new Spyder. Saw it today. Looks outstanding. My 12' Italia is the "brother" to your car (owned by same person, at same time, from new). I am certain you will enjoy it. I cannot comment about what is rational and what is not with regard to buying these cars. There is no right or wrong answer. Only your answer. I do know one fact, you can't bring any of it with you.

 

Seller wants to get the highest price possible. Buyer wants to get the lowest price possible.

Buyer and seller never have the same information. The buyer does not know how many spiders the dealer is going to be taking in. And the dealer does not know every spider owner that may need some money or just want to trade for some other car. And the dealer does not know what options the buyer has. How long is the wait at another dealer? Does the buyer have a friend that wants to sell a spider soon?

the dealer needs to qualify the buyer. After that if the dealer gets too greedy he may have the spider sit in the showroom and eating up interest expense.

Nobody NEEDS a spider. Lots of other options out there. So it has to be a fair deal on the part of both parties. Otherwise there is no deal. If the dealer is charging too much the car will sit until the price drops to find a buyer. Most people who have money to buy a spider did not get that way by being foolish with their money. Sure there are people who win big in Vegas or inherit some $ who may just blow it. the exception.

If the buyer is low balling he won't be able to buy the car cuz somebody will always pay a fair price.

Paying a $50k premium for a spider. Say the wait is 2 yrs for ordering a spider at MSRP. In two years the spider will cost more. $5-10k per year. If you have a trade-in it will depreciate over the next two years. Many fcars depreciate $20-25k per year. And don't forget maintenance expenses. Another $5k per year in my experience. Doesn't make paying a premium sound so bad now does it? And you will be able to enjoy the car while you are still young enough.

 

That's the key phrase,no one here knows exactly how much time we have left to enjoy these things.
Regardless of age.....

 

I picked up my 2013 spider the first week of January. On my window sticker theres "TSMG Fee" $1,750. Has anyone seen this before or know what it is??

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Randy
I didn't have it on mine what does it mean?
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I don't have the vaguest idea what TSMG Fee relates to. I will say that I noticed there is no gas guzzler charge on my sticker, nor yours Jeff. Could this be related to that potential error being corrected? I Googled "TSMG Fee" and got nothing. I assume this is a US car. If not, could be some country specific thing. (I am loathe to admit that I don't know how to start a thread, go back and not lose everything. So I can't check post location.) Anybody out there with a clue? Is it worth a separate thread?
Randy
Just looked. Last I remember, Westchester, NY is in the US! So scratch that theory. My car was delivered January 11, also.

 

TSMG fee

The Secret Money Grab