David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Who is me ?

 

First of all the only P3/4 ever was 0846. 0844/0848/0850/0854 were NEVER P 3/4's. They were never fitted with a P4 engine and the factory records are very clear.

Secondly The shop where HL kept 0844 expressely told me that the original 330 Can Am body of 0844 still existed as taken off 0844 when it was fitted with a replica 412P body.
Is that not true?

Thirdly the only green 412P alloy roof was fitted and destroyed when 0854 was crashed by David's co driver post 1967 wearing a replica 412P fiberglass nose and tail.
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One thing about Classiche is they will be glad to take the money and do many things as long as the Classiche signature is on it. How "original" this makes it is still open for much discussion. And remember there is no guarantee the the actual work was done at Ferrari or by Ferrari mechanics. There isn't a P series, 250 GTO or many others out there that are "original" so let's get real and just appreiate when the restoration is as close to original as is possible. tongascrew

 

Not true.

Maybe the shop was speaking about some REMNANTS of the 330 Can Am body.

 

and that is the sad bottomline of this mess.

 

I thought 0846 was the only one designated as a 'P3 / P4' (i.e. NOT 'P3/4') because it was the ONLY P3 which ever became fitted by Ferrari with a true P4 three-valve engine?

My understanding was that those 1966 330 P3s which were sold on to client teams for the 1967 season (i.e. retroftitted with carbureted induction), were called 'P3/4s' whereas the ones NEWLY BUILT for the 1967 season (i.e. such as 0850 and 0854), were known as 412Ps?

 

No. P3 0844/0848 were converted to 412P's by Ferrari and sold on to customers as 412P's.
Some did sloppily refer to them (including 0854) as P 3/4's but the factory records clearly refer to them as 412P's. 0850 and 0854 were built later (1967) on unused P3 chassis as 412P's. They were never P3's.

0846 began as a P3 and was converted by Ferrari to a P3/P4 (factory records). It's Le Mans records refer to it as a P 3/4 and to 0854 as a 412P. (I'll check the factory records and Le Mans records again but this is how I remember them.)

 

It is and the same is true of The only Original 330 Can Am ever made it is extinct as well. The Original Ferrari models/Tipo's in the photo of Walter's ex cars in this thread, like the original Sharknoses are gone forever.

 

Thank you for your reply. The Classiche Red Book Certification was never going to happen as it would clearly not be in line with their strict??? policy of only RB certificating cars in the specification as they last left the factory. They couldn't have made an exception for 0858 as it would have set a precedent for further similar Red Book requests of cars being in a different specification/configuration at different points in time. This is the only reason that Ferrari will not evaluate/award 0858 Classiche Red Book Certificate as a P4 but would evaluate it for certification as a Ferrari of Historical Interest if submitted and not because they are averse to its reconfiguration as a P4 as some of the previous posts in this thread imply.

 

Good.That is that the Can Am body will remain with the car. Not so good are the cars displayed at Ferrari which are mislabled or "legitimate" rebodied or reproductio. tongascrew

 

In the photo, the roof doesn't appear to have sustained damage in the crash.

Check out the below link to see how 0854's roof looked decades after the crash:

maestroferrari

 

Clearly not original. If you plow through 0854 resto thread you'll see why.

In addition The photo of the crash damage to 0854's original roof clearly shows damage to the front windscreen hoop.

 

From my view of the photo, it's patently obvious that the windscreen sustained damage. It's much less obvious whether the front windscreen hoop/frame sustained damage.

However, I didn't expect you'd concur with the originality of the roof, nor WOULD I EVER expect anything otherwise! (i.e. after all, the photographic documentation contained in the link contravenes/flies in the face of the very view of P-car history you've been laboriously laying out ad infinitum....)

 

maestroferrari

When scrolling thru the bare aluminum photos, one can see the portions of the body which are period original (i.e. including the doors) vs those which are English-wheel. Again, the work was done in So Cal, not in the UK.

 

The roof is not original to 0854 or any P3/412P/or P4 and the photo's in your link prove that.

 

A small nagging question is why the huge love for the 350 Can Am which is arguably less good looking and much less successful than the 330P4.

Away from the central argument that it should/ shouldnt be restored as a 330P4, I would be interested to know as a purely pointless argument, but one with an interesting answer.

So, what would you prefer if I offeerd you either a 330 P4 or a 350 CanAm ?????

 

How so?

Are you alleging that the sequence of events described in that link were faked/staged?

 

??

I very clearly stated:

"The roof is not original to 0854 or any P3/412P/or P4 and the photo's in your link prove that"

Your question is silly. What does that have to do with events described? I missed the part where chain of evidence went from this photo to the guy who walked in the door with the green roof.

As for how so. Look carefully at period photos. The answer is quite clear. The second one answers for P4's. Others in the link I directed you to answer for 412P's and P3's.
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I would perfer an original 330 Can Am and an original 350 Can Am to what 0844 and 0858 were turned into. Other's obviously wouldn't.

 

Your first photo demonstrably shows damage done to the windscreen, but is far from conclusive insofar as the extent of damage (if any) to the windscreen hoop/frame itself.

 

I am by no means an expert on the subject but the picture clearly shows the entire roof damaged, including windowframe and actual screen.

 

from meastroferrari:

'disbelief' being the keyword here. Anyway, apart from the credibility of this story, would a genuine roof have writing on it explaining from what particular chassis it came?

Besides, this roof could in no way be the same roof as seen in the pictures of a wrecked 0844.

 

+1

 

FYI, guys like Rob Shanahan, Lennart Gustafson and Bill Attaway have reputations beyond reproach -- these guys flat out DO NOT lie.

Even if the roof was not specifically from 0854, it's pretty coincidental that it fit like a glove. Could it be that the roof came from a different P3 or 412P?