THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

Hi All,

I've been reading this thread with great interest.

Just wondering to anyone that's going to Geneva to catch the intro, is there anyone that obtains the F150 press kit I would be interested in buying it

Thanks.

 

True. True. I think someone talked about this somewhere in this thread.

 

I assume those are the two battery packs (in gold). The CoG seems lower than in the solution adopted by McLaren for their P1. Do you know where the fuel tank is located?
Regards
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Am I crazy that as I read this all I can think is this thing is so over complicated that no one will want to own one in 10 years and the value of the F40 is just going up and up as the new cars get further and further from its ethos?

 

How do super capacitors like those used by Toyota in endurance racing compare to the batteries used in KERS and the like?

Are they cheaper, more durable, lighter? (I know they don't hold enough juice for on demand power surges, but if they're significantly lighter maybe they could be another way to go in future designs.)

My thanks in advance.

 

during the preview one fellow client asked the scenario what if battery technology improves in few years time and whether the current batteries can be retrofit with lighter more powerful units. Makes logical sense. The marketing guys had no answer to that question. My take is once they complete this car their time and effort will go onto the next project and I doubt they will put the resources to relook at this completed project. But never say never i guess.

That rendering is correct. Those are the battery packs and they slide under and behind the seats on the outside. Bottom panel material is kevlar to protect against penetrations and such. fuel tank no idea.

 

They are VERY expensive and a bit dangerous. IMO there use in road cars is a long way off.

There is also technology to store electricity in flexible (graphine) panels but once again expensive and a ways away for road use.

Any KERS car after warrantee period is over will be VERY expensive to maintain.

Battery life will depend on a lot of things but slam charging and not warming them before use isn't a good idea. Note the issues electric cars have in low ambient temperature. We warm ours up for hours before slam charging them.

 

More :

-Dual Clutch Gearbox vs Magneti Marelli Single Clutch (Enzo)
-E-diff vs Mechanical LSD (Enzo)
-Little displacement increase (6,0 vs 6,3 liters)

Are all factors introducing more weight in comparison to the Enzo

Luque

 

It's all about : energy density, or how much energy you can store in a given weight (or volume).

There's been lots of "claims" made over the past several years, about the "potential" of supercapacitors to achieve an energy density that meets or exceeds that of the lithium battery (with a promise of much faster charge time, as well) ... but such claims (including long term reliability) remain unverified, afaik.

 

strange back

 

Our engineers researched super caps and came to the same conclusions.

It's interesting to note Porsche has already announced a non KERS version of the 918 the 960.

 

"enthusiasts can find intriguing hints at what lies in store from Ferrari at Geneva" from Ferrari website (http://www.ferrari.com/english/gt_sport%20cars/gt/Pages/130228-new-special-series-car-to-debut-at-geneva.aspx)
who can find this please ?

 

Don't "hold your breath" (as the saying goes) !!

In the hundreds of years of battery technology, there have a been a whopping 3 ... yes THREE ... major steps forward : lead acid, nickel-metal hydride (and/or nickel cadmium), and lithium. I suppose you might also include alkaline ... but the point is that battery technology is not changing or evolving very rapidly, at all

 

The more manufacturers ramp up their technology pissing wars the more I wish they would simplify. I am not fascinated by battery and hybrid tech but maybe I'm in the minority. More gadgetry to me means more headaches, more driver isolation, and more components to become antiquated. Give me light, smartly packaged cars with some damned sex appeal! Low coefficients look great on paper.... but not so great sitting in my garage.

Cheers.

 

FXX program is still going I believe, so if the new car has an XX program and the KERS is retained, I'd bet there will be continuing development. Couple of ifs there, but seeing as how the XX program has been fairly successful and KERS is one of the main selling points, it's probably a good bet to happen...

 

hard to argue with that

I just hope that if/when KERS batteries fail (in any of these cars), that there's a "seemless" way the enthusiasts/drivers can still enjoy the vehicle under nothing but "petrol power".

Or, do we all stock-up on a few spare battery packs from the get-go ?? (assuming a shelf-life that would substantially exceed the active-life)

 

This is great news.

 

Will it be possible to drive the car with power coming from the petrol engine? A mode/button you can enable that will only use the V12?

 

Personally I think down the line Tuners will be offering to remove these systems entirely.

On the F70 as it has a large displacement Petrol engine that could work. As P1's TT uses huge TT's and uses KERS to fill in torque until the Huge TT's spool it could be done but you'd have to use different turbos IMO. As Porsche is already engineering a KERS/less 918 that could probably be done.

The main issue would be completely replacing engine/KERS management ECU's but there are systems and engineers that could figure it out.

 

I'm with you ... i think you're probably quite right about tuner "options" in the future.

Meantime, I think i really will investigate the cost (and wisdom!) of getting a spare battery pack (or two) for the F70, straight away. Heck i'm already looking into spare ECU's for a few other newer F-cars ... just in case.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cNqaPSHv0]Speed Comparison: GT vs. F1 - YouTube[/ame]

Increased down force is a good thing.

 

I don't think buying a spare battery pack would make sense. Battery packs have to be used/cycled properly or they become worthless. The charger we developed for our spare pack is very complicated and different from our regular one.

The F70 Pack looks pretty plug and play. I'd ask them the replacement cost for that item and add 20K to have a dealer swap it out. (Just a guess) My guess and it's JUST A GUESS is all in, replacing KERS batteries will be needed every four years assuming moderate/not race use and will cost 80+K. If you learn the price of that item it will be easier to guess. Porsche KERS batteries may last longer as there are more of them but still owning any of these out of warranty will not be cheap.

I would definetely NOT NOT use these cars regularly and properly cycle and charge their battery packs. A LOW mileage garage queen KERS car may quickly become a disaster.

 

I'm not only worried about battery replacement cost a few years down the road (out of warranty) ... i'm also worried about basic battery availability !

It does present an interesting question : what about a car that needs (or happens) to sit, unused, for an extended period of time? Will there be a special, "application-specific" battery tender (of sorts) that can cycle the KERS battery packs? If not, how long can a car go "idle", before the owner has to worry about battery cycling?

Good questions for Ferrari (et al) in the "KERS generation", methinks

 

It shoudn't be that difficult! Think about some emergency operation when the battery is getting to hot or the system has other problems - I think Vettel made this experience quite often ;-)

Porsche made the Carrera GT a very "classic" supercar - there had been so many problems with electronic systems and the new inventions with the 959, on the other hand every sportive orientated Porsche (GT3/GT2) is very fundamental related to electronic supporting systems. So it didn't suprise me, when I heard that there will be a car without KERS. I really like this! Some rumors say there will be a special version of the new Ferrari supercar - perhaps 100 kg less and more engine power instead of KERS.

 

Thanks for the clarification.