Why No 458 GTS?

My rant about the 458 Spider being the best convertible money can buy got me thinking: why not a 458 GTS?

I loved my old F355 F1 GTS. Best of both worlds. And you didn't have to worry about putting a wet canvass top down (a no-no).

The GTS 458 would not be as high tech nor have the potential mechanical problems of a motorized top. And the biggest advantage (other than being less expensive to manufacture) is that you could still see the engine under the window like the Italia.

Don't get me wrong, I love that the rear window can be put down with the top up so you can hear the glorious noises coming from the back.

Were there aerodynamic considerations? Too much cowl shake (would have thought a GTS would have less than a spider)?

My guess is they just couldn't get it to look right with the large humps behind the driver and passenger seats ala the 360, F430 and the 458.

 

The 458 Spider is basically a GTS, is just the top panel is motorized instead of manually operated.

 

Do you mean a targa detachable top?

 

Yes indeed.

 

In addition to simplicity, it could enable the coupe lines to be kept. Whereas the Spider is a very nice execution of the hard top convertible, the styling is still slightly compromised vs. the coupe. Don't think it will happen though.

 

What you are proposing should be relatively straightforward to do yourself.

Find a shop that has some experience in this area and discuss the matter.

I don't know what it will do to your re-sale value. But I've got a feeling you ain't getting your investment back.

 

My thoughts are that in this demographic, people expect that they will have the latest and greatest. It would be embarrassing to have to fiddle with latches and reaching across the car to remove the roof when a BMW 3er has a top that can disappear at the touch of a button.

The engineering on a removable targa would be a cinch compared to the Spider. I doubt that structure had anything to do with it. It was already engineered with the Spider in mind and once the top is gone, the top is gone whether that is for a GTS or full removable/foldable top. Either way you are missing the link over the top from front to back and lose that rigidity.

In the end I would think that having three different sets of body panels (Coupe, Spider, GTS) on such a relatively small volume car wouldn't make sense financially.

 

+ 1

 

Here you go, 458 GTS Targa:
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The only reason a car having a manually removable targa top is because the manufacturer can't make a nice execution on a powered operated top.

Even the Auto show presenter don't look too happy working on the top, I don't imagine many $400k car owners enjoy doing it, especially on the street, or about to rain.
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There are certain advantages:

1. The whole top system is lighter (no electric motors, no mechanisms)

2. Top up the car is more rigid because the roof panel can be an "integral" part of the car

3. You can see the engine like in the coupe because the mechanism is not blocking the view

 

All definitely true.

1, The current spider is 50 KG heavier then the coupe, so taking away all the power mechanisms, could save maybe 20 KG?

2, I don't see how the powered panel is not an "integral" part of the car, only difference is the latches are power operated.

3, This might be the only valid point that actually matter to some people, being able to keep the clear engine window. But the % of real owners that actually prefer the engine window over a power top is very small, I would imagine.

 

It's funny, a few years back I made a similar thread in the 360/430 forum about a making 430GTS version and I got FLAMED!!!!! I thought I did 15 rounds with Rocky Marciano and Mohamed Ali.

A factory GTS (targa top) version would be great for a 458, in limited production of course. People would buy it.

 

I believe this photo shows off the idea well:

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If you had to just pick one, the choice would invariably fall to the F355 GTS. You get fresh air, more noise, rigidity and get to retain the coupe's C-pillar, engine cover. I think people have an issue with the 458 spider's C-pillar or lack thereof.

 

Couldnt agree more. The GTS looks fantastic.

 

Now that I have an auto would not convert to a manual GTS...the auto top is just too handy.

But ordering a new GTS would be an option as you could still have the engine window and the chassis would be more ridgid. Plus the car would be lighter than the Spider.

 

I've thought the same thing about the 599, but there would be the issue of the dome lights, electrical, etc getting in the way. An aftermarket conversion to the 599 getting benefits of the SA Aperta would have me salivating.

 

Why no Abba reunion?
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No buyer of a 458, having a spider on the market, is going to get out of their car, manually take a top off, stow it. People don't even want to manually shift anymore. The only exception would be the Lambo Aventador Roadster, but I too would make an exception for that car. Gorgeous.

 

What he said.

I've had fiddly tops before, on a 328 GTS, Fiat X1/9, 993 cabriolet and 356 Speedster (Tenax fasteners), etc. Modern car buyers just wouldn't put up with it.

I love targa tops. The complexity of the power hardtops adds unnecessary weight and risk of failure. The targa on the 328 was one of its selling points -- easy, light, and so far has lasted 25 years with no issues.

 

I could make the same argument about roll up windows --- and everyone would buy power windows.

The most common upgrade on every Ferrari? Adding power to the front seats. Ferrari still allows you to this day to buy the car without it "to save weight" and cost (sport seats of course do not come with it).

Try finding a car made after 2000 that has Daytona's but without power assist.

The reason there is no "GTS" -- there aren't enough people to want them to justify it, like there aren't enough people to justify putting a sunroof in a coupe.

 

I think the days of even a simple targa top are over. Look at what Lamborghini uses for the Murcielago and Aventador. Everything I've heard is that these tops are awkward and cumbersome. Structural rigidity demands result in the tops being over-engineered and overly complicated. I hope I'm wrong but I can't think of a modern example that is truly simple while meeting the demands of a supercar.

 

I had a Diablo Roadster which was basically a targa, the mechanism was so simple and the lid clipped onto the rear deck, i have never understood why lamborghini didnt carry this solution over to the murciealgo or the aventador. Obviously not as simple as a spider but I could remove or replace the top on my own in a couple of minutes.

 

lol

 

You answered your own question of why they don't make a manual top, even if the idea interested you before, you don't want it after you tried the auto top.

It is probably why they only made 80 SA Aperta, not a whole lot of folks want a manual top.