Long story short, both great cars, it seems the so called current rates of 360cs make the car less desirable than a scuderia if you're in the market to spend money on a used f-car and want the most bang for the buck. The scuderia is clearly a better car in so many ways, this is a non emotional remark but backed with techincal stats that prove the scuderia is the better car. The main gripe I have with a 360cs is the slow f1 and the 5k belt service change every 3 years would be kind of a drag. Aside from that a cool car with tons of character. Looks is clearly subjective, but when talking about cars as sport specific as a scud or 360cs I find it a bit comical people make a choice based on looks alone over performance? Sinces looks is personal,and I am bias, I think the scuderia looks ways better than a 360cs. Others might disagree, I like the interior better in a scuderia, I also find the matching colored headlamps in the 360cs look a bit dated and odd to me. Both special cars, but at this current time anyone who buys a 360cs over a scuderia might be disappointed. The above is my worthless opionon so hopefully no current 360cs owners take offensive.
None taken, as you say both are good cars, pick one and be happy. Belts on my 360cs are $1200, not 5k.
Thanks and agreed, I am from Canada & I heard the dealer service charge for belt change is $5500, 1200 certainly sounds reasonable.
Saying what you "heard" and in a small(er) country isn't really helpful and is downright misleading to those reading this in the US. At least put the "Canada" part in the first post and perhaps that you "heard" rather than know from actual personal experience. So many readers of f-chat mistakenly repeat or memorize posts like yours and then viola...crazy high (and inaccurate) belt change prices on 360. I paid $2971 for a "major" at a dealership last year. included changing all fluids, filters, belts and tensioner pulleys. A full fluid and filter change is $1500 at most dealerships on a 430 (again, all fluids). So the belts and tensioner pulleys (as a proper belt job should be IMHO) was about $1500 (I got a decent discount cause I'm good looking or because I asked, I can't really tell which...kidding of course, it was $1800 normally). There are at least three places in the US (universal, Braden, Ferrari of LI) that advertise belt jobs for $1800 on 360. Anyone paying much more (in the US) is paying a bit over market. I have never seen a 360 belt job for more than $2500 in the US. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe...but that $5k is for a "major" which includes all fluids, belt job and changing plugs. Fwiw, I also had plugs changed for another ~$400 when I had my service done, so a comparable total of ~$3400 (Iirc was $3900 before discount). Also from a Ferrari dealer, so it pays to check around and negotiate! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for posting that, I was just about to reply to arizonaitalian asking him to chill out, I heard it directly from my ferrari dealership, 5k was the cost. Hardly spreading false information? If anyone is spreading false information on this thread it seems some 360cs owners might be, some are still thinking the 360cs is as quick as the scuderia? and some now trying to suggest the belt change service is minor and barely cost anything? I am still sticking to my story something about the 360cs that would bother me is the 3 year belt change services, would be a major drag to me.
I'm plenty chilled. If you still can't see the difference between the cost of a major and the cost of a belt job, I don't know what else to say. Changing the belts and tensioners every three years adds roughly $1800 (ranges from 1500 to maybe 2400 on the high end) to overall maint costs. If you have determined that paying an extra $500-$800 per year in maint costs is a "major drag" I'd say you lost the plot of Ferrari ownership...that amount is a rounding error in terms if the total cost of ownership for any of these cars....if we are talking about money and putting the costs of the belt change in perspective, I guess we can reference the two f-chat scud owners that just spent several tens of thousands of dollars for one year's ownership. $500-800 pro rata belt change (heck even $2k if they had it done in that year) would have been a welcome spend if it came with the CS's price change over that period. These are facts, not biases...none of which factor into my ownership decision. I buy these cars fully expecting them to cost tens of thousands per year in maint, ins, depr, detailing, fees and taxes, etc. If a car happens to hold value, that's an unexpected bonus to my eye. Unless one is willing to hassle with selling it themselves, a large cost of ownership is the haircut on trade-in/consignment fees. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That'd be me and agreed completely...I ate a grip of cash and still don't care They are wonderful cars.
I am struggling a bit to work out why we're still talking about speed. There are absolutely no arguments that the Scud is faster, I don't hear anyone disagreeing with that. But good and fast are not the same thing. Otherwise, buy a Radical or some other mental track racer and be done with it. Faster is not the same as better. Which of the two, Scud or CS, history will judge as the better car is very much a different argument with no clear conclusion - there are reasons supporting each. And if you own either, you clearly already put plenty of your money where your mouth is so why the need to try and 'prove' anything? I prefer the CS some people don't. It's a very fast car. The Scud is faster. I don't care. That's what I think and you won't chamge my mind but it doesn't prove anything does it?
You can make our wonderful cars amazeballs cars with you know what =) Keep me posted on the development...I'm getting anxious!
Nice little video I found Stradale vs Scuderia on Vimeo To me it is pretty simple, CS is prettier and more tactile but is not technically superior. However, neither is a 250 GTO when compared to what came after but I know which I would rather have. It is not always about raw performance, Ferrari focused a lot on the sensations of a racing car with the CS and it will always be special because of that. And just look at it, it stands alongside 288 GTO, P4, 250 SWB and GTO as one of the most beautiful cars Ferrari ever made (IMHO)
I know beauty is subjective, but anyone who finds a 288 GTO repulsive should be hanged. Edit: Same goes for a 250 GTO.
I am in the minority but I like the Scud lines better than the CS. Alas, I can't swing Scud thus had to "settled" for the CS. maybe in a few years a scud can be attained...
I too like the scud lines, front air dam, carbon splitter, mirrors, rear diffuser, wire mesh over the intakes and the way the stripe tapers to a point on the front. The interior is also a great piece of kit. As you can tell I own one and its more than just speed.
FWIW the cheapest Scud on Autotrader is listed at $175k with 11k miles. The lowest CS is $144k. Fairly substantial difference IMO.
That was never in contention...the point of this discussion is that a portion of the Scud and Strad markets have recently started to overlap.
Long term I think the production numbers will play a large role in which car is the most desired, the technological and speed differences will play a smaller and smaller role as these two age. So I think the CS with 1,300 VS 3,500+ Scuderias will be the more sought after car eventually. However, neither car will appreciate like the vintage stuff does.
Surely you guys in the USA should be looking at prices in Europe too, it is a global market CS for around $100k on mainland Europe. Www.mobile.de
Very mixed bag at that price range. There could be value there but mostly high miles cars and/or forced sellers, so the market is a bit unnatural. Italy for instance is dumping exotic cars because most people have evaded tax in buying them and the government is now chasing them very hard by getting the police to stop drivers of super cars and requiring them to submit proof of taxes paid. Eventually that will stop but there must be some bargains in the meantime. Have to be careful about VAT too - some cars are not VAT paid so add 20%. Mostly, the market in countries not affected, like Germany and the UK, is about 100.000+ Euro for a clean dealer supplied car. A bit more in the UK due to the rarity of RHD. Scud has been consistently 20% higher and should stay there for a while I would have thought.
With regards to Scud production there always seems to be a high degree of multiple figures being added together with 1 and 1 making 3. CS was produced and delivered to customers in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Launched in March 2003 at Geneva show. Scuderia was produced in 2008, 2009 and 2010. The car was launched in September 2007 at Frankfurt show but I can't locate any customer cars delivered in 2007, this started in 2008. So customer production period for both covered 3 calendar years although Scud production was definitely longer. The following figures are all taken from UK government registrations which are fully recorded for all Ferrari models. They are freely available. UK Ferrari sales as a percentage of World sales are also reported by Ferrari. Whilst there is clearly room for error in the calculations of production all the figures are based on published and documented customer cars being delivered in each calendar year. Even allowing for a margin of error the figures speak for themselves. UK deliveries: Documented 118 CS delivered - total production '1288' Documented 165 Scuds delivered - total production '1650-1800' F430 represented approx 70% of Ferrari production in its best year of production (2007). Scud production come online in 2008 but overall production of 430 fell back slightly with 20% of production being Scuds. 08 was the best production year for Scud by car number produced. 08 Scud production as a percentage of 430 production was 20%, this % increased to 32% in 2009 - but all 430 production reduced dramatically as California production came online and overall Ferrari sales fell by 5%. Total 09 430 sales including Scud and 16m were only 43% of 08 430 production figures. California as a new model line outsold total 430 production (excluding16M) in 09 by 3:2. 2010 production of all 430 models is less than 5% of California and 458 production. Production by year: 07 6465 Ferrari's sold - 430 coupe + spider - approx 4500 cars 08 6587 Ferrari's sold - 430 coupe + spider - approx 3700 cars, Scud approx 900 09 6250 Ferrari's sold - 430 coupe + spider - approx 900 cars, Scud approx 650, 16M approx 450, California approx 2350 10 6461 Ferrari's sold - California approx 2950, 458 approx 1400, Scud approx 150, 16M approx 50 Total Scud production is in the range 1650-1800.
