Why not Lotus ? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Why not Lotus ?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by finnerty, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 2, 2004
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    Jason
    Thanks for the info David. :)
     
  2. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    Thats absolutely correct about Jensen. Colin Chapman used Jensen as a test bed for the 9xx engines and they suffered for it. The early engine block flexed too much and cracked. By the time they went into the Esprit most of the problems had been fixed though.
     
  3. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    But thats the Peter Stevens redesign of the original Guigaro. The original is much better IMHO.
     
  4. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior

    Jan 24, 2009
    862
    Norfolk VA
    Ah, I stand corrected regarding the engine that powered the Jensen, I always assumed it was the Kent/Cosworth Elan engine. Thanks for clarification, I didn't know where the Esprit engine came from. Too bad Lotus made the foray into engine building, really unnecessary. I thought the selection of the Toyota engine for the Elise was pure genius: allay the fears of reliability by aligning with the most bulletproof reputation in all of auto-dom.
     
  5. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #55 finnerty, Mar 29, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
    Well, to be precise......the changes were a bit more evolved than that over the run :)....

    Giorgetto Giugiaro ---- S1, S2, S3
    Peter Stevens ---- SE (1988)
    Julian Thomson ---- S4 / V8 (pre-2002)
    Russell Carr ---- V8 (updates / post-2002)
     
  6. MITYRARE

    MITYRARE F1 Rookie

    May 21, 2008
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    Paul

    It was the 907 not 901... just keeping this accurate


    And this engine was developed in the Jenson cars and this really hurt jenson as it took a while to get the engine right and by then the Jenson reputation was tarnished....and once the engine was improved Lotus put it in the Espirt...it is a robust engine without much torque but very pleasing , gets the job done, and is inexpensive to own and maintain.... I would put it in the category of "bulletproof"

    beev
     
  7. MITYRARE

    MITYRARE F1 Rookie

    May 21, 2008
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    Paul


    Beautiful car...there is a Model year 2000 to the car in your picture sitting in the Toronto Gentry Lance Lotus of Ontario dealership Brand New and never driven.... if someone wants a time capsule car.

    beev
     
  8. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Indeed, it (the 907 engine) is "bulletproof" when used properly.

    As is the later 918 (V8) engine --- also a fully Lotus design. In fact, this 3.5L twin-turbo is fully comparable in performance to the engine in the F40. Although for various reasons (most notably the "weakness" of the OE Renault gearbox that Lotus was stuck with putting in the V8 Esprit), the engine was detuned (via ECU electronics and slightly milder turbos) to deliver only 350hp in street trim. However, that engine was designed, developed, built, and tested to be a 500hp unit all day long ---- and it is :). So, running around at only 70% of its capability gives it "bomb-proof" durability (again, if used / maintained correctly).

    Holy crap -- is that thing STILL for sale ?! It has been there (and for sale) forever :)
     
  9. MITYRARE

    MITYRARE F1 Rookie

    May 21, 2008
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    13 years!!!

    beev
     
  10. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Yep, and IIRC, someone over on LotusTalk checked that car out about 3 years ago and discovered its "horrible secret".....

    It was one of the earlier 2000 cars, so it DID NOT get built with the updated liner sealant from the factory change. And, since it never was registered, it was not eligible for the recall / warranty engine replacement, retroactively. Also, Lotus offered, as part of their new car warranty program on the V8 Esprit, that owners received their 1st timing belt change free of charge :). But, again, because it was never sold, this car was not eligible for that 1st belt change coverage either :(.

    Dealers were not allowed to take advantage of either of these services with their inventoried cars.

    So there it sits, a brand new Esprit that immediately needs an engine teardown / rebuild and new timing belts ---- all at the expense of the first "lucky" owner ;)

    No small wonder they are having a hard time moving it ---- especially at the high price they seem to be stuck on.
     
  11. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
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    #61 Tony K, Mar 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    What can I say? I adore the 907 engine. I like the sound, the feel, its distinct rumble, its 7k RPM redline. Clearly a 4-cylinder -- not a V12 or a flat crank V8 -- but with an enticing sound all its own.

    And as mentioned earlier, when looked after, it really is a tough engine. The bottom end is seriously strong, and you can run it literally all day at 4000 rpm with no valve bounce or float. It only gets better when you wind it up and run it hard.

    I never minded the build quality of the Esprit -- or any Lotus. When you construct a car that weighs 2/3 of what other cars with similar dimensions weigh, it won't feel like a bank vault. When you shed that much weight, there has to be a trade-off somewhere. I just see the Esprit (or any Lotus) as having its place in the overall arena of different methods and virtues of body construction. What are you in the mood for--solid precision, or light weight?

    I always appreciated the clever yet simple engineering brilliance of any Lotus, and the adaptation for road use of principles derived from race cars. It might mean that some things are higher maintenance, but again, that's what it takes (or what it took for whatever era the Lotus was designed) to achieve that degree lightness and handling. It's the real thing, and some experiences you just can't achieve any other way.

    I like the ethos of the people who make up Lotus and the culture of Lotus owners. I have been fortunate to meet many of the people who designed and engineered the Esprit, and in addition to being brilliant engineers, they all share that "can do" attitude, creativity and ingenuity that enabled Lotus to accomplish so much with such limited resources. Chapman wasn't the only genius -- he assembled an incredible team. As for Lotus owners --to build on the point made by someone earlier in this thread about being serious enthusiasts -- you have a higher percentage of people who appreciate the car for the drive and fewer for image and status. . . . makes for a lot more fun group of people to be around.

    And then there is the design. The Esprit is my favorite, of course. Giugiaro penned some of the automotive world's all time classics, and this is one of his best, nothing short of iconic. Happy driving, everyone! :)
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  12. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
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    Why?

    As has already been said, the 907 engine was well sorted by the time it went into the Esprit and by the time the 912 and then the turbo came out was rock solid. The implementation of the turbo was well done, with very little lag.
    OK it was difficult to work on. The only real bug it had was the exhaust manifold and wastegate adaptor were prone to deterioration and cracking but this was rectified in later versions with a fabricated manifold instead of cast.
     
  13. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Definitely different breeds of cats ---- Ferrari and Lotus owners. Then, you have the true odd-balls, like myself, who have both.....:) I spend a lot of time defending one to the other at C&C get togethers :)
     
  14. HardTen

    HardTen Formula 3
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    Aug 7, 2011
    2,387
    Ft. Worth, TX
    David,
    I have a '98 TT V8 that underwent the full package transformation about three years ago. Mark with Sphere Motorsports in Houston took the engine out of the car, crated it up and sent it to Autobahn Exotics in Carrollton, TX for a total tear down and rebuild by a very well known Lotus expert. The engine was then crated up and sent back to Mark to reinstall into the car. The car is currently chipped to 450 bhp and runs like crazy, handles well, and is a blast to drive. It also has had all of the modifications to look like a 2002-2003 model including rear lights, central dual exhaust with "cheese grater", and wheels. The interior bits were also upgraded and a new Raid steering wheel was installed. Overall an awesome car, but I am planning to sell it. If you know or hear of anyone that might be interested please let them know there is a well sorted high horsepower car out there. Enjoy your ride when you get it back.
     
  15. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #65 finnerty, Mar 30, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
    I'll spread the word ;).....I would also suggest you post it over on LotusTalk, if you haven't already. Did you upgrade your gearbox, or are you just taking it easy in 1st & 2nd ??

    I'm going to start with the PUK Racing ECU mod, HKS blow-off valves, and Larini high-flow cats, then I may go for bigger turbos later. 490-510hp is very achievable and still manageable with the stock chassis / suspension. My car is a later one ('03) so it already has the better AP brakes ---- the earlier Brembos are barely enough to handle everything stock. So, once you up the ponies, you really need the better braking of the AP system too :).
     

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