Sequestration and the USAF | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Sequestration and the USAF

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by tazandjan, Apr 9, 2013.

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  1. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Itamar Ben-Gvir

    A few years ago, I spoke with an F-82 pilot, who flew out of Kearny AFB, NE and Bergstrom - 27th F.W. / F.E.W. They would fly from Bergstrom to P.R. for navigational training flights. Of course, on the return leg, the wings would be filled with some Rum.
     
  2. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    That's pretty much the thing.... The next class may not finish due to budget issues. Now I'm guessing they will find the money someplace at the last minute since there are plenty of WOs in high places.
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Terry H Phillips
    Mark- Much higher percentage of weapon school grads now than in the past. But then, we had a whole lot more aircrew and airplanes back then. Almost a prereq to be an ops officer or commander now. Not so in the olden days. Same with below the zone. In the 48 TFW at Lakenheath, with 4 squadrons and well over 100 F-111Fs in the early 90s, we only had one below the zone officer in the entire wing. Times change.
     
  4. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    It's interesting to see how the WIC has evolved over the years. Most of the old head WOs seem to be people interested in being the experts, now there seem to be fair number who see it as another ticket punch toward being a general.

    We were just sitting around the office this afternoon and realistically the path to success is to learn a flying job just good enough not to kill anyone then immediately go DNIF and throw yourself into a masters degree and start angling for all kinds of different jobs around the Sq. Funny thing is that some of the people I see going places have been fired from every job they were in and bounced around everywhere. Since you practically have to kill someone to get a really bad OPR its hard to tell a fast burner from a bag of crap.

    Going back to sequestration.... It's really a striking change as very recently we were burning holes in the sky just to use up the PFT. I remember a discussion we had with a general a few years ago who told us we were flying empty missions just so the Iraqis would see us doing it.
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mark- I think I liked it better when I was in than I would now. Not too many careerists back then. Most of us just loved to fly. No qualms about giving someone a bad OPR, either.

    Back to finishing the income taxes.
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Mark, Taz and all, I think the change started coming in right after the first Gulf War, and reflects similarly what my Dad describes happening after WW2, but to a lesser degree. The AF I now see and hear of only vaguely resembles the Air Force I joined in 1985, and much of it is flatly unrecognizable. Heck, have you seen the new 2 piece flight suit?

    I pretty much blame my generation of leaders, now in power, whom I find quite shallow and devoid of balls. That said, I am very hopeful for the future, for many of the young folks I see, Mark included, are fine men and women. I hope with time, the old will wither, and these newer, more honorable Americans, if odd to me in their own way, will displace my sad generations embarrasing contribution. I pray there is something left for them to inherit.
     
  7. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    One of the saddest posts I've read...

    I don't think it's just the AF... it's endemic.

    (What's the 2 piece flight suit?)
     
  8. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    I haven't seen one in person but I understand that some spec ops units might be wearing them along with some Army fliers. It basically looks more like a regular camo uniform but with fire resistant properties of the flight suit and a different pattern.
     
  9. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #84 snj5, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. docmirror

    docmirror Formula Junior

    May 6, 2004
    781
    Ft Worth TX
    It is sad, and it's the point I've been trying to make about the USAF and sequestration. They aren't 'special', everyone gets the same haircut. Rather than whine about it, REAL airmen would pull up their pants and get the job done.

    The Army had 2 piece flight suits for use in SE Asia in the late 60s, early 70s. The one piece jumper suits were just too damn hot to wear in the jungle I guess.
     
  11. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    This is what the many in leadership has been driving the real airmen to over the past 15 years: Do more with less - it stops working after a while and leads to ultimate failure covered up in lies. How many examples do you need? You can't run from math, or enact a waiver to the laws of physics, or supply and demand. Pull up your pants indeed.

    We'll start with a literary example based on a great British defeat:

    As Kipling wrote, "Into the Valley of Death rode the 300.." and we'll modernize with: " Armed with "pull up your pants and get the job done".
     
  12. docmirror

    docmirror Formula Junior

    May 6, 2004
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    Well that's fine then. The CinC of the USAF will go to his boss at the JCS and say something like 'with the assets provided by congress, we/I am unable to provide the US with the defense and offensive capability to which it deserves'. Hand his stars over and call in his replacement.

    If you want to quote Englishmen and war, here's one for you: "The battle of Waterloo was won on the fields of Eton".

    Also, my original point was that this is NOT just a USAF problem. Everyone gets cut, everyone in govt 'can't get the job done' without more money. Well - in case people didn't get it from the last few posts, there is no more money! It's gone, gone, gone. If you can't do the job with what you have, get out of the way, maybe the next guy can. If he can't then we'll suffer the consequences. Whining on a web board is not a solution. The pity train leaves at 4:22 on track 6. All those that can't cut it - get on board.
     
  13. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Veteran
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    Hey Russ -- you've got to double your troop count and change your author!

    Half a league, half a league;
    half a league onward!
     
  14. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    You are quite correct that it's not likely. That would require telling he truth, and having the courage to do so. Failure of leadership to accept 'truth sayers' and accept people telling them what they want to hear is quite in vogue - as people who believe their own performance reports.
    No, I think that approach is strategically and tactically flawed and doomed to failure. You can't change reality by simply having a leadership system based on musical chairs. And how many people are going to be willing to stay and do more with less? You miss the strategic points, and to keep replacing commanders in a futile situation actually exactly reflects our current hollow situation.

    No one's whining - just telling the truth and the people that don't want to hear who eagerly and always defend their position by a sideways accusation of whining. It's a bit juvenile, quite congressional, and in today's PC insecure world, quite effective ploy. But not with me. I am quite sure, and I should know, that that exact attitude you describe is a cancer in the current leadership.

    But that's ok as this is just an internet chatboard.
     
  15. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    :) !!!
     
  16. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    I'm guessing that the half troop count is exactly the point...


    I'm sure it bothers Al Tennyson more than the rest of us... ha.
     
  17. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    another metric from gov't for gov't waste... it has been reported there are 31 overlapping / redundant programs , that if cleaned up would generate the 85 billion cost of suquestration by themselves... if true, sequestration is an example of manufacturing a crisis by directive... who's poopin' who... ???
     
  18. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Guys, I'm a Navy brat, but I never served. (My lottery number in 1970 was 350.) But not only will the military will survive, but it will get better. Going on a diet is no fun, but there is no question that the military is bloated beyond belief. (Just as the federal entitlements are bloated beyond belief.) We must do a better job, and we will.

    Dale
     
  19. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    one news report has an ATC tweeting that he would not particiapte in "traffic control slowdown" as requested
     
  20. justinn

    justinn Karting

    Jan 5, 2011
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    agreed... A trimming of the fat is necessary within the government, and that is going to have to be across the board(every branch). Entitlements are off the scale, with no way to fix them other than a redesign of the system. S.S. has been borrowed against so many times, there is no way to repay it. We as a people hold the greatest share of the US debt, as the government made a judgement call to borrow your retirement $ to fund various projects(50% + military). We owe well over a trillion to China, whom I believe is the second largest US debt holder, next to us. Then comes Japan, also over a trillion.

    Just for fun, read some of the papers Thomas Jefferson wrote... you will either laugh, or cry.

    Justin
     
  21. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    #96 Tcar, Jul 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    great news!
     
  23. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Read the report again. It says that the Thunderbirds will begin training again, but that all airshow appearances remain cancelled. :(
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    If they begin training, they should be able to start performing again in 1 October timeframe, after the current sequester period ends on 30 September.
     
  25. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

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    Don't count on it. The sequester goes for 10 year, with a deeper cut each year, as I understand it. You're counting on agreement in congress: isn't going to happen.

    Art
     

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