OFFICIAL B-17 Thread

have had the experiences of viewing close up, crawling through both the Aluminum Overcast (Oakland-Pontiac, MI, Airport I'm guessing 1999-2004 ? ) and the Yankee Lady (Willow Run - Yankee Air Force - both at their home show "Thunder Over Michigan" and at other show locations). Enjoying this thread.

Giotto in France incredible post and photos!!

Wish someone would post up photos from this past weekend's "Thunder Over Michigan Air Show" - it was to be the largest exhibition of heavy bombers from WWII assembled since. I went last year - saw Lancaster (out of Canada). My excuse for not attending this year? ALMs and Indy Car Honda 200 at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course the exact same weekend. Hate it when that happens!

Best, and keep those thoughts and spottings coming.

 

My B-17, Theres a tag under one of the engine cowls that says it was built in 1943.
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Wonderful post! I'm amazed that the life boat equipment survived a belly landing. You hae some great historical stuff there. OOps, I mistakenly thought that it was from an air/sea rescue airplane and not the standard equipment in the life raft . Still a great relic.
Thanks,
Switches

 

wonder if there are any DVD's of the 60s TV show "Twelve O'Clock High" with Paul Burke?

 

Saw a B-17 flying up the Hudson Sunday past Manhattan. Anyone know which one or where it was going?

 

This is for Bob Parks and to all you who fancy flying in B-17. After this we all know how to fly it, wount we

How to Fly the B-17 Flight Operations 1943 Training Film
http://youtu.be/Fdc8MJHB0Cc

Great film, the different variables that can be adjusted on engine seem great, engine rpm's, backpressure, turboboost, IC hot/cold, airfilters on/off, mixture, ignition etc. on top of, flying it to right direction on right altitude, being charge of 9 lives, add bombing, German aa guns, 109's , it has been a one hell of a ride.

 

Lots of great info, stories and photos in this thread. Thanks to all for contributing. Here's a few pics from my ride in the Collings B-17 in 2005:
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French people in 1944...
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Another nice writeup of a flight in the Collings B-17.

http://thoughtsofanidlemind.wordpress.com/2012/05/25/flying-the-b-17/

 

If you really needed a new tiller for your B17, price doesn't seem too out of line:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=280883697303&nma=true&rt=nc&si=9YNTpxPC%252Fhj0PdE5NKRQkItU8Eg%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

Cut away picture of B-17

http://silodrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Boeing-Flying-Fortress-Cutaway.jpg

 

I didn't see this story here so I thought I'd post this one and the accompanying photos that I got in my email today.

B-17 "All American" (414th Squadron, 97BG) Crew
Pilot- Ken Bragg Jr.
Copilot- G. Boyd Jr.
Navigator- Harry C. Nuessle
Bombardier- Ralph Burbridge
Engineer- Joe C. James
Radio Operator- Paul A. Galloway
Ball Turret Gunner- Elton Conda
Waist Gunner- Michael Zuk
Tail Gunner- Sam T. Sarpolus
Ground Crew Chief- Hank Hyland

B-17 in 1943
A mid-air collision on February 1, 1943, between a B-17 and a
German fighter over the Tunis dock area, became the subject
of one of the most famous photographs of World War II.
An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Group formation went
out of control, probably with a wounded pilot then continued
its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress
named All American, piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the
414th Bomb Squadron.
When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but left some pieces
in the B-17.
The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator
were completely torn away.
The two right engines were out and one on the left had a
serious oil pump leak.
The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the
fuselage had been cut almost completely through connected
only at two small parts of the frame and the radios, electrical
and oxygen systems were damaged.
There was also a hole in the top that was over 16 feet long and 4
feet wide at its widest and the split in the fuselage went all the
way to the top gunners turret.
Although the tail actually bounced and swayed in the wind
and twisted when the plane turned and all the control cables
were severed, except one single elevator cable still worked,
and the aircraft still flew - miraculously!
The tail gunner was trapped because there was no floor
connecting the tail to the rest of the plane.
The waist and tail gunners used parts of the German fighter
and their own parachute harnesses in an attempt to keep
the tail from ripping off and the two sides of the fuselage
from splitting apart.
While the crew was trying to keep the bomber from coming
apart, the pilot continued on his bomb run and released his
bombs over the target.

When the bomb bay doors were opened, the wind turbulence
was so great that it blew one of the waist gunners into the
broken tail section.
It took several minutes and four crew members to pass him
ropes from parachutes and haul him back into the forward
part of the plane.
When they tried to do the same for the tail gunner, the tail
began flapping so hard that it began to break off.
The weight of the gunner was adding some stability to the
tail section, so he went back to his position.

The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep
the tail from twisting off.
They actually covered almost 70 miles to make the turn home.
The bomber was so badly damaged that it was losing altitude
and speed and was soon alone in the sky.
For a brief time, two more Me-109 German fighters attacked
the All American.
Despite the extensive damage, all of the machine gunners
were able to respond to these attacks and soon drove
off the fighters.
The two waist gunners stood up with their heads sticking
out through the hole in the top of the fuselage to aim
and fire their machine guns.
The tail gunner had to shoot in short bursts because
the recoil was actually causing the plane to turn.

Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it
crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures shown.
They also radioed to the base describing that the empennage
was waving like a fish tail and that the plane would not make
it and to send out boats to rescue the crew when they bailed out.
The fighters stayed with the Fortress taking hand signals
from Lt. Bragg and relaying them to the base. Lt. Bragg
signaled that 5 parachutes and the spare had been "used"
so five of the crew could not bail out.
He made the decision that if they could not bail out safely,
then he would stay with the plane and land it.

Two and a half hours after being hit, the aircraft made its
final turn to line up with the runway while it was still
over 40 miles away.
It descended into an emergency landing and a normal
roll-out on its landing gear.

When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved
off because not a single member of the crew had been injured.
No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in
such a condition.
The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all exited through
the door in the fuselage and the tail gunner had climbed
down a ladder, at which time the entire rear section of the
aircraft collapsed onto the ground.
The rugged old bird had done its job.
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4 More
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The rest
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Appropriately, I just picked up a copy of the book "B-17 Combat Missions" by Martin Bowman, and I can highly recommend it. There are companion volumes on the B-24 and B-29.

 

When Boeing built the B-17 they were slowly coming out of the wood and fabric era and even though they had built the B-9 and 247 they were still using the old wooden design methods. The 247, that could be called the progenitor of the B-17, had a Warren truss spar as did the old Model 80 transport. The truss spar carried over to the B-17 and the bomb bay and wing carry through structure was all Warren truss. BUT the wing had a multiple load path structure on top of the truss ribs and spar. Double skins, the inner being a corrugated thick gage fastened to the ribs and spars and the outer a smooth skin riveted to the inner. The fuselage was semi-monocoque with many stringers fairly thick skins...rigid as a battleship. Boeing wasn't totally sure of the strength so it was way over designed and it proved itself to be a tough bird to drop. I flew in both the B-24 and B-17 and the -24 was as wiggly and flexible as the -17 was stiff. In rough weather the -17 rode like a covered wagon on a cobblestone road. I remember watching the fuselage skins wrinkle and flex and the horizontal tail flapping about when the B-24 was in turbulence and we were astonished to see the wing bend upward and wiggle around on our first flight. The B-24 used modern design techniques with shear webs and stiffeners and it was much lighter and faster AND easier and cheaper to build. Folded up easier too.

 

Photo of B-17 and B-24 interior, from here:
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=ForumsPro&file=viewtopic&t=14428&finish=15&start=0
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The Yankee Air Force B-17 "Yankee Lady" out of Willow Run Airport (MI) came over twice today - S to N then W to E.

48 F clear sunny with little wind. The thrum of the big engines drowned out all the nasty motorcycle exhausts. Sorry, no pics - but I got my 7 by 35 binoculars on it!

That's a good day.

 

That illustration was done by R.G. Smith, an engineer at the Douglas Co. and the artist who painted that marvelous and well known painting of the SBD's sinking the Japanese carrier at Midway. Great artist!

 

The second picture down is the B-24 in the fuselage just aft of the wing. Note that on all the B-17 shots that there is NO ZINC CHROMATE. I never was in one of them that had zinc primer on the aluminum except in the cockpit some times and that was dark green to kill glare.

 

I forgot to mention that I did a cutaway of the B-29 for the Boeing Co. celebration of the 50th for the B-29. I'll try to post it when I figure out how to down size it.

 

Mr. Parks,

I wish we could trade places sometimes...... you would enjoy the C-47, B-25, and B-17 Yankee Lady going over, and I could enjoy Shoreline, WA, with Beavers and Otters/seaplanes going over. Is it Kenmore Air you see a lot of?

THX,
neal

 

Poor boy method:
Open in MS Paint
Resize
enter something like 20%
Ouila!

 

There's a cool operating B-17 at Duxford I saw when there last year..
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I appreciate it but please no Mr. Parks, I'm just Bob, maybe ol' Bob is good, too. Yep, I see a lot of Kenmore on a course for the San Juan's going right over the house. Also a lot of heavies coming out of Paine Field and occasionally in the summer WW2 stuff from Paul Allen's and John Session's museums. Not unusual to see an ME109 or P-51 followed by a Waco or Staggerwing. Tough to live this way so I just get in my old 1990 BMW and go up there to listen to them as they roar by. It still is a thrill to hear them and to see them. It's funny when I jump up and run outside when I hear the rumble of a B-17 and my wife asks what the heck I'm doing. " I hear a B-17!" "How do you know!" It's an R1820 sound!" " A what?" ..."Never mind." Then a Stearman goes by and I jump up and I hear....