F355 as first Ferrari

Hello!

I'm brand new to the board and not yet an owner, but I've been doing my homework on the 355 for a potential purchase and wanted to seek the input of experienced owners here.

I've had a long-time interest in the 355 - this is a love affair that's about 18 years in the making! I've been doing some homework to see what I'd be in-for as an owner, and I'm admittedly a bit nervous given that I don't know what I don't know, and from digging through the posts on this board (and elsewhere), the 355 seems a bit more intensive to maintain. So, I do have a bunch of questions here, and hopefully it won't be overwhelming for a single post.

Let me first say that I'm primarily interested in either a Berlinetta or GTS exclusively - it would need to be hard top. On that topic comes my first set of questions:

1. At 6'3", is this going to be a tight squeeze?

2. I've read about potential leaking issues with the targa top (not that I'd plan to drive it in the rain!), and issues with excessive shuttering noise due to poor seals - any comments on the reality of these issues and actual severity would be welcome.

Next, on the maintenance topic - it seems that the posts here have ranged from, "no issues ever over several years" to "I've spent $15k+ per year." I'd really like to better understand the actual maintenance costs for owners who have owned the car over a period of 3 or more years, while driving it at least 3 - 5k miles a year, as I do plan to drive this thing. So, on the maintenance questions...

3. What's been your average yearly maintenance costs? I'm not mechanically-inclined enough to do complex maintenance, so "$0 in labor because I do it all myself" won't help me much.

4. I understand the major engine-out service to be the most expensive of the "scheduled" maintenance - what are you guys paying on average for this service? Are you finding that you do it every 3 years as suggested, more frequently, or less frequently?

I've also read about what I believe are all of the significant/known issues with the car - headers, valves, cats, sticky buttons, dash leather shrink, etc. The posts on these issues appear to reach back at least 5 - 6 years, and there APPEAR to be fixes for the major mechanical issues using aftermarket parts. My questions here would be:

5. Is it reasonable to assume that a well-maintained car would have already addressed the major mechanical short-comings (headers, valves, cats, etc)? Or is it rare to find a car for sale that would have all of these known issues addressed? I understand, from what I've read, that not every car would obviously have these issues and potentially owners wouldn't fix what's not broken... but is preemptive care anticipated of what you guys would call a well-maintained car here?

Last but not least is the choice of transmission. I'm considering the F1 gearbox and wanted some feedback on it, as well. I have paddle shifters in my daily driver, and I like the idea of being able to shift via the paddles, throw it in auto mode if feeling lazy, etc - but I'm also concerned about potential issues with it given this was Ferrari's first model with the F1. On that topic...

6. For the F1 owners on the board, what has been your experience with the reliability of the F1 transmission?

7. If you had to purchase your car again, would you still get the F1?

Anyway, I'm sure I'll have TONS of additional questions as I head down this road of purchasing a car. Given the lengthy amount of time I've lusted after the 355, the emotional side of me is ready to jump-in... but the logical side of me has a bunch of questions and wants to make sure I get it right the first time around! Thanks in advance for any feedback on these questions - I definitely appreciate any and all help!

 

I know you've been looking but many of your questions have been asked and answered before so its worth trying a search on a simple relevant term

For example 'tall driver' in the 355 section yields this amongst others : http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/44803-tall-drivers-355-a.html

Similarly to find threads about the F1 try a search on 'manual' or 'transmission' in this section

 

Instead of typing a book, sent me a PM. I'll give you my number if you want to call and chat.

I have a 98 355 F1 GTS. I love it and do not regret any part of my decision selecting this car.

 

My advice to you, if you've really wanted one for 18 years, is to get it and not concern yourself too much with the difference in maintenance cost to another Ferrari that you won't be as happy with as it won't be that much in the grand scheme of things. Make sure you get a car that is sorted and budget $2k-$2500 a year for maintenance and you will be happy. Maybe they cost $500 a year more than the other v8's that don't need an engine out, but really $500 a year is so worth having the car you want vs. having to compromise that I wouldn't think twice about it.

I've had mine a year and a half, put 7000 miles on it including two thousand mile trips, done four autocrosses and a track day and the maintenance has honestly been less than I had planned for. I do diy, so I can't speak to what it'd cost if you take it to a shop (and I think it depends on the shop at that), but it has been an absolute joy and probably the most satisfying car purchase I've made. It will soon be 'worthless' as I plan to cross the 50k mile mark in May or June after taking another road trip to NY where I plan to drive the road I'd always wanted to drive a Ferrari on as a kid, but even if I consider it worthless at this point it'd have been a bargain at twice the price just from the point of having the exact car I wanted in high school, taking a road trip with my (unfortunately now deceased) father and driving a Ferrari hard on a track. I don't know that one could put a value on all that, and if one could, it'd sure be a lot higher than what I've spent.

 

F1 tranny, would I it again? At the time I said why not go all the way, and I don't regret it.

My friend who is 6ft something fit just fine.

Maintenance, accept that the car is still a 160k car that your buying for less than half but still buying in for the full maintenance bill. Not to scare you, but in the end it is just a car and doesn't require unicorn farts or pixie dust or secret knowledge to work on. Lots of owners have done their first engine removal and install by doing their major with the guidance from this forum. If you have done engine swaps before it really isn't a challenge. Try not to dismiss the idea of taking ownership of maintenance with the car itself. For the price of a major (4~8k depending) you can buy a lift, tool set, major service kit, and some cases of your finest beer as a gift for someone more experienced to come over and help you out.

 

Depends on your leg:torso ratio, but I'm a bit taller than you and fit perfectly, but only with the F1 transmission. The shifter in the standard trans car is on the tall side and might hit your knee in 1st and 2nd. You'll have to try it out to see if it works for you.

I had mine for exactly 8 years and put over 5000 miles on it each year on average. Maintenance costs were right about $8500 per year, but this was more like several $15,000 bills and a handful of $4000-8000 hits in between.

I bought mine from an authorized dealer that had just done a major on it and paid for one major myself 5 years later. My receipt was broken down by work performed, so the actual service was about $7000, but with all of the other things that needed fixing it ended up being just over $15,000 (this is with an independent shop). Most people will never hit the mileage limit so going 5 years between majors is probably what you can expect. The 3 year cycle is overkill.

It's probably best not to assume anything with these. Service records will be your key to a good car. Just realize that some of those things like headers, sticky interior, F1 pump, etc eventually WILL go bad. It's just a matter of time... if the updates haven't been performed yet, you can expect to do it yourself at some point and should work that into your budget and the price you're willing to pay for a car.

Mine was dead reliable. I'm no expert, but I'd be surprised if any mechanics here have had to open up the gearbox on an F1 car. The only issues I had with mine were the LEDs burning out on the gear display, which was a cheap and simple fix from Ricambi, and the dying F1 pump, which was also also a relatively painless fix (minus the $3500 tab...) I replaced it before it broke though, so it never left me stranded. If I suddenly develop a masochistic streak and buy another one, I wouldn't hesitate to get one with an F1 transmission again.

 

Thanks for the quick responses, guys. Dave - I sent you a PM, and thanks for the offer to chat.

I really don't have a problem spending a few thousand a year on maintenance for something I'll absolutely love, and if I could learn to do some of it myself, all the better - more time to spend with it. I think having it break down every other month, though, would drive me absolutely insane.

So far from what I've read that doesn't seem to be the experience of most here (thankfully!). To a certain extent it's not even the money as it is the inconvenience... that is, of course, if the money ends up being something like $15k/year like one of the posts I read here - then we've definitely crossed into a territory where I'd be both put-off by inconvenience and cost alike.

So that definitely leads me back to the question of finding a "well sorted" car in today's market. If you guys were buying your 355 again today, what would you expect to see done as far as mechanical goes? And what would be an absolute non-starter?

 

I PM'd you back.

 

No non-starters for me as long as the things not done were baked into the purchase price to a degree. I would say 50% of the cost to take care of them as I also would not want to make somebody eat the cost of repairing something that's not broken on the chance that it will break as that's just stupid. IE, if valve guides were not done and the car was made before mid '98, I would pay $5k less even though it's $10kish to fix them. If headers never done, $1500 less. If clutch never done, $1000 less (depending on the mileage and trans), etc. However, If it needs a major, you need to factor in the full cost so $6k ish less. So, if you have a good running car that has had none of the standard issues addressed, which I think is fairly rare at this point, I would expect to pay around $8k less than one that has. If it needs a major as well, make it $13-15k.

Fwiw, my car still has stock headers at 49k miles and I have no indication in it's paperwork going back about 10 years that they've been changed. It does have cat bypass pipes which I think help longevity and is something to take into consideration. I do not know if I'd have paid what I did if it had not had the valve guides done, but probably close to it as it was a good deal.

 

Good advice as always here.

I think you need to check your height by getting in an actual car. I am close to 6'-1" and I fit perfectly, but you may be pushing the high end at 6-3. If you are too big, then the 360 and 550 have much more room for you. I do not fit in a 355 spider. I think the seats are a little closer to the wheel because of the top storage behind and I could not get comfortable no matter what. But don't force yourself to fit the car - that will cause you problems and you will sell the car or never drive it. I would NOT be VERY comfortable in a GTS with the top stowed behind the seats. And I am not 6-3. I predict if you want a GTS that you would have to leave the top off in the garage to head out. Not really a problem in AZ. But if you might run into rain, then maybe a B is in order.

Most on here would not advise the 355 as a first Ferrari because it can get expensive quick - even if you get a well sorted car. That does not really happen with a checked out 328 which I owned previously and love to death. I bought my 355 from the previous owner. It developed a leak in the original radiator after 3 weeks of his ownership. He decided to sell it worrying that this type of unknown would always be coming up. My gain. I have new radiators... So only you can know if you can put up with this models unknowns. It is a used car, anything can happen. I drove mine home 1350 miles and it ran like a sewing machine. I would not hesitate to drive it from Alaska to Patagonia, but I have a "sorted" one. Research, records, and PPI are key.

My recommendation is keep $10-12k in an account dedicated for the car and add $150 per month to put toward your major service in 4-5 years. Then you just need to find a well taken care of example. Try to buy one here on FerrariChat. There are several out there in beautiful shape with higher miles, I know you could get for a fair price and would not give you bad dreams at night. Post a wanted ad - they will find you.

The hardest decisions should theoretically be body type, stick or F1, and colors...



So go sit in one now!

Best.

Robb

 

Eric,

I forgot to adress the height issue. I'm 6'0 and have the seat all the way back and it's very comfortable. I don't see a problem with 6'3 but as Robb said, if you take the top off and put it behind the seats then you lose another 3-4 inches and I did it and it's not great. So, on Saturday, I left the top in the garage and it was great!

 

That's the way to do it Dave! Or you could have Pininfarina work up the Superamerica flip top for you. I love that.

Robb

 

I wouldn't buy my 355F1 GTS again, instead I would get a prius.

 

Thanks for all of the input guys - very helpful. And thanks Dave for the phone call earlier - nice to hear from someone who's just successfully navigated the 355 buying process.

I hadn't thought about losing leg room with the top behind the seats - excellent point! I think I'd just need to gauge whether there was a chance of rain that day and either leave the top at home or go out with it on.

From all of the reading I've done here, right now this is what I'm thinking would be on the must-have list:

- '98 or '99 (although I'd probably do any year assuming the rest of the must haves were there)
- Mileage up to ~35k
- Already sorted for the following:
--- Headers
--- Valve Guides
--- Cats
- GTS or Berlinetta (I could be happy with either)
- F1 transmission
- Recent major within 1 year or 5k miles
- Service history (done at authorized dealer)
- Preferred colors: Red, Yellow, or Silver (sorry, using the English layman terms!)

On the "wish list" I'd add:

- Already sorted for sticky parts
- Already sorted for dash shrinkage (if any)
- Capristo or Tubi exhaust

On a PPI leak-down test I'm looking for no more than 5% (preferably) loss per cylinder? I see some of the better numbers posted are within 3 - 4%, and some of the higher numbers at 8 - 10%.

Thoughts welcome on all of the above... and if you guys think it's a reasonable set of criteria? Anything major that's missing from the "must haves" too? I realize some of the "sorted" items may or may not ever be issues on any given car, but I think I may feel better about the purchase knowing that they've been addressed versus wondering if they'll be an issue down the road.

On the height issue, I think there's only one way to find out, and that's heading out to a local dealer. I'm in the NYC metro area (western CT to be more exact), and I think I saw one or two within a short drive to Long Island.

 

Not sure what budget is here, but from my experience in looking forever (just casually), "complete service history from authorized dealer", "everything sorted" and "recent major" will put you at the *absolute top* of the pricing spectrum.

It would be unreasonable, IMO, to look for those qualities and not expect to pay top dollar. Just something to keep in mind if building a realistic buying budget.

 

How much is this car?

 

Yes, I'd expect the purchase price to reflect the must-have list. I suppose it's a gamble on whether to purchase a fully sorted car (and have piece of mind, while paying the price potentially) versus buying a car that's currently trouble-free at a lower price but hasn't been sorted out... and maybe some of those issues never arise, and you end up ahead.

While part of it is a financial argument, another part is just convenience. Scheduling for a car to be in the shop and being without it during a nice weekend has a cost, too.

The cars I've seen listed recently seem to go between $50k - $70k with some outlying exceptions on both ends of the price spectrum that probably speak to the uniqueness of those cars. I'd be curious what you guys think the appropriate budget would be, as well, for the must-have list or close to it. I'm not sure I want to search for 6 months either, but I'd like to find a compromise between reality of the market (what's out there) and a well cared-for car.

 

As I said to Eric on the phone today, he can get what he wants with way less than 35k miles for under $70k. I have multiple examples to back up that statement.

But Eric, a recent major in one year is fine but not 5k miles. I'll email you the Ferrari notice, it's 3 years regardless of miles. Most go 4-5 years. But miles cannot be the only data point.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferraris/404670-1995-f355-berlinetta-6-speed-manual.html

My old car, sorted.

I have a 95 355 GTS inbound with $60,000.00 in service recites over the last 5 years incoming from Seattle, landing Thursday.

Good cars are going up, most "good" assetts are.

First one in Avatar (with a nice FerrariChat member in W mass)second one I had in link / should not have sold that / 3rd one coming in, I keep coming back to the 355.

 

@Ask - the blue '95 is a nice looking car. While I hadn't considered that color combo, it's actually pretty stunning! It has a very reserved look to it... it's just missing an F1 transmission.

 

I LOVE her colors, one that got away with the 94 512 TR that was sold at a week moment also.

 

This topic comes up weekley Eric. Rest assured, with a short bit of patience you will find an awsome car for less than $70k. Sure, these cars has some known issues but those are not 100% accross the board.

Just a few weeks ago a 99 GTS with less than 8k miles sold for $65k. (Not an F1)

 

I love the blue B. it was out of my budget for an immediate purchase. I did not want to wait until the end of the year without an F-car. Definitely check it out.

So ask328, what color is the one in bound? Can't wait to see this one...

Robb

 

Dave your price range is going up

Red Tan, can't wait.

Robb, your Road Trip pictures are stunning and I love Giallo on a 355, one of the only models that wears it well IMHO.

Yes I would get a 355 as a First Ferrari,
I'm 6'0 and I notch the seat up a few clicks.

 

My first Ferrari was 355...and I grew to hate it. I wasnt prepared nor educated on its quirks and high levels of maintenance.

It was my fault, but I didnt realize that until years later.

My advice is to not get a 355 unless you are 100% prepared and educated on the car and what it needs to live and thrive.

if you are someone with a tight budget...dont do it.

otherwise its an amazing car and Ill probably get another one quite soon (now that I know what I *might* be in for)