96 355 running lean!!?? | FerrariChat

96 355 running lean!!??

Discussion in '348/355' started by spider96, May 5, 2013.

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  1. spider96

    spider96 Rookie

    Jan 14, 2013
    39
    Toronto,Ontario
    Full Name:
    blake
    hey guys, just looking for some advice... I just did my 30k major this past winter- everything was done etc.. also add a tubi , test pipes and bypass pipe. car is running like a champ sounds great, had it out the other day, as soon as I hit over 3,500 rpm the car starts spitting then I get a good vibration, sounding like an exhaust leak, I back off on the throttle and no problem car evens out... sound like an exhaust leak... so I checked everything exhaust donuts, connections, etc.. everything seems good...had a scan tool on the car while riding... its saying the cars running lean.... (running out of fuel at high rev..
    during the major- all vac lines/checks were replaced, plugs, fuel filter.. I checked at idle fuel pressure 55psi( I couldn't find what was spec was but that seems ok to me) compared to other cars!?..

    the one thing we found was when hooked up, I would put it to the floor and on the scan tool was only reading 40% load on motor (when the car is at full load)... my mechanic is suggesting mass air flow (5.2)
    took it out cleaned it.. still the same issue..

    now my question is has any one else have had a similar issue like this? like I said, ran great last year with no issues like this.. mass air flow sensor is only a few years old (bosh) are the maf common to go on these cars!?

    or do I have to get any ecm tuning done with no cats ? (I don't think I would have to but it is a Ferrari)

    any help would be great come Monday ill be buying a new maf..
     
  2. apex97

    apex97 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Nov 25, 2006
    593
    Stockbridge, GA
    Full Name:
    Edward Zabinski
    My money is on Fuel Filter or Fuel Pump....ethanol eats 'em baby:) Pressure and VOLUME are two different tests. Do the filter first but its more likely a pump. Could be lots of other things but that's my guess. Did it run perfectly for awhile after the major or is this problem right out of major? Did it sit all winter?
    The 40% load reading could be a MAF, but its just odd to me.
    Any codes?
     
  3. Extreme

    Extreme F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2010
    2,515
    Northern Utah
    Full Name:
    Erick
    What kind of scan tool are you using? I would like one that can read engine load.
     
  4. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
    Full Name:
    Stuart K. Hicks
    I was plundering around a 355 engine last week and noticed the fuel injector plugs looked just like the ones on another car of mine. Got a vibration in this car and it turned out to be corroded fuel injector fittings.

    Maybe this is the cause.
     
  5. roadracer311

    roadracer311 Formula 3

    May 6, 2009
    2,398
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I would guess fuel pump as well. I've seen this on a Ducati that was in our shop. Ran lean at high RPM, but ran great at low RPM. If we choked off the air supply it would run well at all RPM.

    If you have the ability to do so, I'd try checking fuel pressure when the car is under load, to see if the pressure drops at high RPM and hard acceleration (high RPM sitting still probably won't draw enough fuel to lower the fuel pressure).
     
  6. spider96

    spider96 Rookie

    Jan 14, 2013
    39
    Toronto,Ontario
    Full Name:
    blake
    I cant see the fuel pump being the issue, I am getting 50 psi on the rail at idel!? maybe im wrong... and this did happen first rip after my service, as I had the motor out all winter, but nothing has changed, fuel stabilizer was put in at the end of last season,
    only thing that has changed was I got rid of all my cats, - that why I was maybe thinking I getting more flow and its not picking up on the 02's to make up for it on fuel.. or the maf??

    and its a snap on scanner we have hooked up as we ride we can see the load its reading on the motor the computer puts out... which was only reading 40% when the gas pedal was all the way down, which I think its getting its reading from the mass air flow...

    do the 30k service I found quite simple and fun! only thing I don't like at all if pulling the wiring harness out with the motor, makes me nervous moving around old wiring can never be a good thing!lol..

    hopefully this is something stupid.. maf are all over the oplace as far as price on ebay-$75.00- $700.00 on ebay all boush same part #...
     
  7. spider96

    spider96 Rookie

    Jan 14, 2013
    39
    Toronto,Ontario
    Full Name:
    blake
    does anyone no what the proper gas pressure is at idel and at throttle!? cannot seem to find this info anywhere..
     
  8. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

    May 5, 2010
    2,438
    North of TO
    Full Name:
    Guido
    If one of your tensioner bearings is ceasing up, it will do the same thing...loss of power above 3000 or so rpm. Take a look at your timing belts, there is a spot where they can be seen from the top. If one of the tensioners is ceasing, that belt will show strange striations on it as the rubber on the belt wears but not the cords in it. This is a long shot but always good to check all possibilities.
     
  9. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,007
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    You said you did everything n major so I assume all filters were just changed so they should be good. Did you by chance get the injectors cleaned some do and some don't. If you want to check the maf you could disconnect it and let the ecu use the throttle pot to determine fuelling. According to the WSM if the maf screws up the ecu is automatically supposed to do this. Te throttle pot will give you full fuel when the throttle is wide open. If it acts the same it shows your maf is likely good. And proves you have a fuel delivery issue of some kind.
     
  10. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,007
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    There's no chance a towel or something was used to plug the intake during the engine out and got pushed it and is restricting the airflow?
     
  11. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,007
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Also is it possible a fuel filter got put on backward to the direction of fuel flow. I did not think this could be done when i changed mine but the WSM says it can.
     
  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,007
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    My last suggestion would be to check the fuel pressure adjuster. This is likely the problem what it does is based on manifold suction it allows fuel to flow back to the tank. If the adjuster is not seeing enough vacuume it will not fully open and allow fuel to bypass back to the tank.
     
  13. spider96

    spider96 Rookie

    Jan 14, 2013
    39
    Toronto,Ontario
    Full Name:
    blake
    Hey taz, good suggestion on disconnecting my mass air flow- and going out and seeing if it changed, I tried it and unfortunitly still no luck, still spitting on high rev, gonna look into the fuel pressure adjuster, my mechanic still thinks mass air flow, as the reads on the scan tool while riding were way of - as what it was reading durning driving!
     
  14. apex97

    apex97 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Nov 25, 2006
    593
    Stockbridge, GA
    Full Name:
    Edward Zabinski
    I still think it might be the fuel pump, however there are lots of things to look over after an engine out. I had a similar symptom on a recently serviced car and it turned out to be a fuel injector connection that looked solid but the tab had been broken in the engine out process allowing it to work at low RPM's but wiggle loose when the speeds increases and cause a power loss.
    Look over all the connections and vacuum hoses carefully, even stuff that was not removed.
     
  15. spider96

    spider96 Rookie

    Jan 14, 2013
    39
    Toronto,Ontario
    Full Name:
    blake
    well finally got a new mass airflow and went out for a try with still no luck, im scratching my head with this one pretty good, im starting to think I have to take the exhaust all back off intake etc and see if anything is stuck lol , car runs excellent until you get around 4500 rpm...
    one thing that makes me nervous when doing the 30k service is when the motor comes out all the wiring has to be moved and disconnected, always a chance of a wire getting pulled! I was really careful ...

    is there any other suggestions that I might have missed???? im about 2hrs away from a Ferrari dealership, I still think this is a stupid problem that im missing!

    thxs for all the help so far guys...

    * a lot of people are suggesting fuel pump, how do I test this to prove if this is the issue, even thow im getting close to 50psi at the rails on idel!?

    thxs guys
     
  16. roadracer311

    roadracer311 Formula 3

    May 6, 2009
    2,398
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I still think it's the fuel pump. If it can make good pressure at speed, then it's not the fuel pump. I don't have any good ideas on how to measure it while driving though. Might want to seek out someone with a dyno.

    You could tape over 3/4 of the inlets to your air filters. If that makes it run better at high RPM, then that would be another vote for fuel pump. On the Ducati I worked on, taping up 1/2 of the air inlet made it run much better when the fuel pump was failing. That bike ran perfectly at low RPMs and smaller throttle openings. Ran like crap on the freeway until I taped it up to test it. The fuel pump fixed it.
     
  17. apex97

    apex97 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Nov 25, 2006
    593
    Stockbridge, GA
    Full Name:
    Edward Zabinski
    You can chase this forever and still miss it. A Ferrari SD tester will point to the problem in a few minutes. I think its worth a "sub 4500 rpm" drive to the dealer or even tow it. It's not going to cost much for the diagnosis and once you know the issue you can still say "thank you" and take it to do it yourself.
     
  18. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,748
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    Check your throttle position sensors.
     
  19. rotaryrocket7

    rotaryrocket7 Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2011
    625
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Unmetered air could cause you to lean out, any chance you have a bad seal on the intake manifold or somewhere else post MAF?
     

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