1930 Pierce Arrow Land Speed Record Car from American Picker's TV Show Unearthed! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

1930 Pierce Arrow Land Speed Record Car from American Picker's TV Show Unearthed!

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Falcon Wing, Apr 10, 2013.

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  1. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    #26 James_Woods, Apr 16, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
    Plus - nobody has explained to me what the altimeter was supposed to be for...

    EDIT - but having said - wouldn't everyone love to know the true history of this strange artifact?
     
  2. karguy

    karguy Rookie

    Apr 18, 2012
    17
    #27 karguy, Apr 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That would be common sense..... today, but not back in the 30's. Here is a link to another car that was proposed to be built by Harlan Fengler, the same guy who built the Thunderbowl Comet used in the 1936 movie "Speed" with Jimmy Stewart.

    Huge 1 | The Old Motor

    Notice the HUGE grille opening in the front of this car.

    In the below article Harlan Fengler discusses driving the Thudnerbowl Comet (called the Falcon in the movie) on the set of the movie at 152mph with actors near the path of the car. That was 152mph with a Cord FWD straight 8 driveline very much like the Pierce Arrow streamliner I am trying to ID. The other attached photo shows another period Pierce Arrow land speed record car of Ab Jenkins from the same period (early 30's) showing what the thinking was in some land speed attempt cars. This Jenkins car broke 42 seperate records.

    http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/Troy%20NY%20Times%20Record/Troy%20NY%20Times%20Record%201936/Troy%20NY%20Times%20Record%201936%20-%201062.pdf

    So there is no aerodynamic consensus during this time period. Things we take for granted today such as down force weren't even considered back then. When they needed more cooling, they enlarged the opening without much thought to the cavity it created. Nascar didn't even figure this out until 1968/69 when they closed off the grille in the 68 Charger 500 and then added the downforce of the 69 Dodge Daytona. So expecting a 1930's or even 40's build to have known that a large grille opening was a horsepower/speed destroyer doesn't seem to fly with the understanding of the time.

    There is another article from 1941 in Popular Mechanics (see link below) where this same Thuderbowl Comet/Falcon/Golden Eagle was preparing to break three seperate records using three seperate engines including a striaght 8 for one class record. This is as late as 1941!

    Thunderbowl Comet - Land Speed Racing History

    So my point being, old land speed cars are not so cut and dry when it comes to why or how they were built or what record they were going after. Ultimate land speed for this Pierce Arrow, no. But some of the numerous other records up for grabs, yes, most definately.

    Also, notice that both of the cars pictured below have almost identicle wheels and tires as thsi Pierce Arrow streamliner car. I am not claiming that this car IS a land speed car for sure, I don't know. What I AM saying is that these reasons given are not valid to disqualify it either.
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  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Agree with all your points but I never said that somebody was actually trying to build something competitive or even for speed records.

    I seriously do not believe this car has been built for speed records or if so been built by professionals. Pierce Arrow would surely have built something way better engineered than this. Therefore I think somebody was either building a movie prop (though why powered, etc.?) or they were just building something to fill a personal need ... like people who build those rat mobiles.

    Remember also that Pierce Arrow around the same time became famous for their v12 record cars ... with Ab Jenkins

    BTW: karguy, do you think it could have had more than one engine?
    Pete
     
  4. karguy

    karguy Rookie

    Apr 18, 2012
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    #29 karguy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There is no way this was built by the factory. Pierce Arrow gave Ab Jenkins a brand new V-12 and all he did was pull the fenders off and run it to death earning Pierce Arrow several World records. The following year he modified it like the photo above.

    The quality of the build on this car is hard to see because it is so weathered. A few examples...

    1. Recessed Soss aluminum door hinges.
    2. This metal piece is the top of the firewall where the sheetmetal meets the upper cowl metal. Notice how the sheetsteel is cut with a tab to fit under the metal cowl bar and that the tab has rounded corners. If this was a cheap build it would have been cut flat and screwed to the face of the cowl bar. The sheetmetal work is super high quality throughout the entire car.
    3. There is also a custom machined gear drive to convert the RPM from the rear of the waterpump/alternator shaft to properly calibrate that RPM to run the aircraft tachometer. All machined for this car and this car only.
    4. There is a custom made shifter that extends the shifter through the firewall about 3 feet from the firewall. Not that big of a deal..... however look at the end of the shifter where the knob would mount. It is both perfectly curved AND tapered AND threaded out of a solid steel rod. That is some nice fabrication and not a backyard build.
    5. The body cage is made of aircraft grade aluminum and built in an aircraft quality manner.

    There are many more examples throughout this car that show good engineering and skill of construction.
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  5. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    #30 BartonWorkman, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The research I was able to do on this car hasn't revealed much more than is posted on
    this thread.

    Attempts to contact historians with the respective Pierce Arrow and Cord clubs were
    never returned. Likewise, no response from Daytona International Speedway who is
    said to hold the records from the Ormond Beach LSR events or the USFRA.

    The historian for the NASCAR museum in Charlotte is very interested but has no
    records of the car either.

    Given the era, finding any records of LSR events on Ormond Beach are difficult to
    impossible. Any photographers or media are long since gone and although there are
    photo archives, this car does not seem to appear in any of them.

    The best image I was able to find was this one which shows the car more closer to it's
    current appearance with the short rear end rather than the dramatic elongated tail which
    we see on so many of the other images.

    This image was a production still from the "Speed" movie during filming.

    BHW
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  6. karguy

    karguy Rookie

    Apr 18, 2012
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    #31 karguy, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
    Just so that we are clear..... the black car in the photo above is the 1936 "Falcon" from the 1936 movie "Speed" with Jimmy Stewart and later called the Thunderball Comet is NOT this Pierce Arrow. I do however think there is enough similarity between the two cars to feel there is a possibility that Harlan Fengler who built the Falcon/Comet may also have built this Pierce Arrow but I have no supporting proof of that, it is only a theory at this point. Harlan Fengler raced at the Indianapolis 500 and helped design other Indy 500 cars and not only was the chief Steward of the Indy 500 track for many years, he also was one of the co-founders of the Cragar mag wheel company.

    I am starting a Facebook page for the car where I will post details of the car and any new information that is found about the car.

    https://www.facebook.com/PierceArrowLandSpeedRecordCar

    Another tidbit of new information on the car is the presence of Pennsylvania Rubber Company tires on the car. All of the tires on the car are dry rotted and coming apart however, they have virtually unworn tread and show little use. The Pennsylvania Rubber Co. ceased making car tires just before WWII and were then bought out by General Tire after the war so these tires were pre-war only. The Pennsylvania Rubber Co. manufactured "racing type" tires. With the scarcity of rubber and most notably tires during WWII, there is little doubt that these tires were not sitting around on a shelf unused throughout the war to later be purchased and installed on a post war build. While not conclusive as say a prewar photo showing the car finished and constructed, these pre-war only tires certainly point to a pre-war build.

    REWARD: THERE IS A $100 REWARD TO BE PAID TO THE FIRST PERSON THAT CAN PROVIDE A PERIOD PHOTOGRAPH OF THIS CAR OR VERIFIED PROOF OF THE BUILDER OR ANY RACE HISTORY FOR THIS CAR
     
  7. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    have you inspected the other car to look for similarities in fabrication techniques?
     
  8. karguy

    karguy Rookie

    Apr 18, 2012
    17
    Great question. So far only one person seems to know where the Comet is currently located and I have reached out to them with my contact info to see if I can arrange getting some photos for build comparison.
     
  9. tcannon

    tcannon Formula 3

    Feb 18, 2009
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    I was just curious about something. Did you buy the car from the owner shown on the American Pickers episode? I remember that he wanted a lot of money for it. Or are you just close by and doing research on it? Good luck on your quest by the way. ;)
     
  10. karguy

    karguy Rookie

    Apr 18, 2012
    17
    We bought it from "Randy" from the 2011 show in April of 2013, two years after Mike and Frank left it there.
     
  11. DocL

    DocL Rookie

    Nov 6, 2013
    1
    #36 DocL, Nov 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Can anyone help me with info on this car? Found this photo going through my father's things (he's 89) and back in the 1930's he had 3 brothers move to California from Ohio where they attended many motorsports events (midget races, sprint cars, motorcycle races, etc...). They would send photos home. Here is one taken in the latter part of the 30's in San Diego, CA. Any info?
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  12. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    Take a look at Post #30 above...........similarities?
     
  13. dmaxx3500

    dmaxx3500 Formula 3

    Jul 19, 2008
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  14. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    Feb 29, 2008
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    This car is currently in a garage in North Scottsdale being restored.. It is the same car used in the Jimmy Stuart movie.
     

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