Replicas, why bother ??

Just look it up. If it's a classic car that originally had X hp and & Y tq, and such and such performance, just find something similar. Or heck, if the car was exciting to drive then, make it exciting to drive now. Don't stick a 700 hp ZR1 engine in it, but also don't pick something super lame.

I'm sure there are a lot of internals that would provide a great experience whether original or not.

 

Great post!

 

And that sums it up perfectly for me (having built 2 Cobra replicas and currently building another replica). You either understand or you don't. If you don't understand creating something with your own hands that is unique, that nobody else has done exactly the same, then that is your loss. You get to drive a car that you built yourself; there aren't many people that get to do that.

And yes, I have a 328 (a real one) to drive and enjoy. So that gives me the best of both worlds.

Rick

 

I dont have any problem with Replica cars - as long as they look like the actual car...

Kraftwerke 917 - awsome, Beck Spiders & speedsters - very nice - the guys who make GT40's from original patterns - great -Pur Sang Bugatti type 35s - awsome... love to have one one day.

I would love to have a replica 917 & Bugatti some day... and they are not cheap.

now if you mean a replica - fiero passed as a 308 - no, or datusn as a 250 GTO - no. just plain ugly... or Kelmark GT... as a dino... no thanks.

I have not seen a 250 GTO replic up close- made from a 250 GTE etc... but for me I dont have any problems with them.

5-6 years ago I was in charlotte for a meeting and had to stay overnight ... so I was at the local HGI... and as I parked the car I noticed a red something under the portico... it was swoopy and red...as i got closer it was a 250 Testa Rossa... pontoon fender car... amazing down to the webber carbs, blue cloth seats, wood wheels - it was the actual thing. so i check in and ask - who's Ferrari is that... guy says oh that is Mr. xyz... he's at the bar... so i go introduce my self - english guy - who works at Hulman and Moody shop, making replicas... this was his personal car.

next day came back from meeting - saw him pull up ... so we went for a ride... it was simply awsome...

I've driven several 250 vingage cars ( SWB is my most famous drive) and this one looked smelled, and sounded and drove like the real thing... probabbly better made than the real thing as it was rust proofed, and zinc coated and then sprayed with good paint & all the aluminum to steel connections were properly coated so no corrision ... I'm good with it all... but if you do go replica make it look authentic!

 

So obviously everyone has their own opinion. Some say they should look like the actual car, some say they should not try and copy an actual car. Some people collect stamps.

 

Cheap crapbuckets??? Strong words. From your statement you seem to think that folks that build replica cars are trying to deceive; that may be the case with a few but I can assure you that the majority of replica builders do so for the joy of building something mechanical with their own hands and the fact that it resembles something they love just adds to the enjoyment. Would the Cobra be as popular as it is if there was no hobbiest movement....I do not know but an interesting question. I have build 4 replica cars (3 cobras and a shelby daytona) and own a "real" 355, I enjoy creating what I like to look at and the cars I build are vastly superior to the originals in every way except acquisition cost. I in no way am trying to decieve anyone, I simply love the the Shelby vehicles and frankly they are simple enough vehicles for someone with my limited funds to be able to replicate. Lets face it if we all did not love cars and to drive, Ferrari nor any other very expensive car would exist, so to insult someone for thier efforts and love of the rolling vehicle is simply wrong.

 

We have beaten this topic to death over the years in the Vintage forum. I have never owned a replica, and never will; I do not understnad the desire to own something that purportw to be something that it is not. And my 30 years of experience in the Ferrari world has shown me time after time, that the owners of these cars just can't help themselves to either outright lie about the car's authenticity or constantly hedge the truth about what it really is. I am at the point now where I actually prefer seeing a crappy 240Z-based 250GTO instead of a replica that butchered a real 250GTE - at least you know from 50 feet that it is a replica, and not a "really good" fake that cannabilized on a real Ferrari.

My blood pressure really goes up when I think about the replicas that butcher real Ferraris. The usual victims are 250GTEs, 330GT (2+2s) and the 250 PF Coupe. Where do you think these cars come from? Do you think there is an endless supply? There are only several hundred unmolested 250GTEs in the world? I ask the following rhetorical question every time in this debate; when will it become a tragedy that the market for fake GTOs/TRs has decimated the surviving GTEs? when there are only 50 left? 20?

 

Nothing physical in this planet will be eternal. Unless some lucky folks could take their Ferraris into space when is time to leave.

 

I can definitely appreciate them IF they are done well.

The problem is that FEW are.





PDG

 

This raises another issue I ran into recently.

I attended a car event maybe a month ago where there were lots of Porsches, 6 Ferraris, and a host of other cars around. Well, there were two Shelby Cobras. One even had Shelby's signature on the glove box. I largely ignored them because I have seen so many fakes over the years. In my 30+ years of car spotting I have only seen one legitimate Cobra out of hundreds of them I have seen and inspected.

As the cars were leaving I was standing with a gentleman discussing his 1958 Porsche and one of the Cobras drove by.

He looked at me and said, "You would never know that is a two and a half million dollar car would you?"

I was stunned. I ignored one of the six USRRC Competition Cobras because I didnt think it was real.

Yeah, I am STILL kicking myself about that.






PDG

 

+1,000

They are a tacit admission by the current generation that we are out of talent and inspiration when it comes to automotive design.

You might have more of a problem if it was your company's iconic product that was being ripped off.

 

Well... replicas are deceptive by definition. It's not your intent, but it is what it is. That is the problem, regardless of the skill (which I respect, hugely, because I don't have it) involved.

I also love the Shelby coupe, but I probably will never own one, and that's OK. I've had and will continue to have some authentic, honest, great cars, and I get joy from all of them. When people ask me about them or see them, they're gaining an appreciation for Ferrari, or Porsche. No one came up to me when I owned my 328 and said "well it's nice but a 250 GT SWB is nicer". And with the Speedster, people (even young people) are invariably interested in the car because it's wearing 1956 plates and has as much of the 1956 trim as we were able to save. It's the product of several guys over many decades racing it hard but caring for it enough to tuck it away when it wasn't worth much so it could see the light of day again in 2013. The rush is because it's real, not because a carburetted four banger is an engineering tour de force in 2013.

Yeah, it's been talked to death. I agree. The last thing I'd want in my garage is a fake vintage Ferrari that requires a litany of excuses and footnotes about what it isn't, why I'm not successful enough to have a real one, how the fake one is kind of exactly the same because it uses parts from a real one, etc. You either have a vintage Ferrari, or you don't.

 

There are many reasons to build or buy a replicar, all potentially valid except for trying to sell it as a real one. "Better" means different things to different people.

For those against them, what about replica airplanes? Why bother building a replica Mosquito, or Wright flier, or 3/4 scale P-51 Mustang?
Video: Mosquito 3/4-scale replica maiden flight » World Warbird News

 

Is that the one Clarkson drove on Top Gear? It is expensive but the craftsmanship is a work of art well deserving of Great Replicar status.

Personally the only replica's I despise are the poorly built ones and ones that disregard the original engine configuration. Also I would never even consider building a replica Ferrari, I respect the marque too much.

 

My dream car is a Cal Spider. To me, it is the best looking sports car ever made. But there are two problems. One, I don't fit. At 6'2" and long waisted, I doubt believe there is a '50s Ferrari that I would ever fit. Two, I don't have tens of millions laying around.

However, there are companies that make replicas that usually use a Chevy small block. I haven't checked into them, but if I ever got motivated enough, I wouldn't mind paying say $50k for one just to drive around.

Dale

PS I WOULD NEVER PUT ANY FERRARI BADGES ON THE CAR.

 

Truth! The last guy I met who was driving a Pontiac Fiero "Mera" (phony 308) was also flashing around a plain American Express card that he had spray-painted black. (Anyone heard of the exclusive "Centurion" card?) No kidding, it was just pathetic.

Yes, indeed. My 308 cost me significantly less than many "replicas," but it's a real Ferrari. I'm not anyone's idea of "rich," and I'm certainly no snob. I just don't have much respect for the phony stuff - be it fake Rolexes, "replica" (read "fake") Ferraris, or people who lie about their credentials.

It's not a question of snobbery, it's a question of honesty.

 

You have had the rarest advantage of having grown up with the real thing in your dad's garage, an authentic rare racer. Most don't get that chance and a replica might be their only possible chance. It is a shame that 250 GTEs have given their heart so that faux 250GTOs and TRs could exist, but it is also a shame that so many Daytona Coupes gave their beautiful roof lines that inspired the 240Zs, so some owners could go topless. But that trend came to a crawl and eventual stop when the demand was reached, far before Daytona coupes became extinct or even close to it. The same will happen with the GTEs of which over 900 were made during a four year run. My old Jeep CJ-5 "Super Jeep" was more rare.

Now how about a true and total replica, where no old car gave its life for the cause? This could be a reproduction engine block, a donor from spares or a long ago totalled car. How would anyone be able to justify an objection to this other than possibly as an intellectual property infringement of a 50+ year old design?

 

They object because they spent the money on the real thing and are mad that somebody else gets to experience it for far less.

I get that these cars are considered 'art', but it's the design that was art, not the actual car. They're a machine, and machines can be duplicated. Especially racing cars where they were expected to be wrecked or broken and spares needed. Claiming it's a 'real' one is wrong, but if you want to experience driving a 250 GTO and don't have a friend with one or $15 million and the obvious ability to make a brand new one exists for a fraction of the cost, why not? Because somebody you don't know will get their panties wadded while they stare at their car in the garage? Life's too short to worry about trivialities like that, on both sides.

 

The entire car -- engine, gauges, upholstery, wheels, badges, etc. -- is art.

Guys who know and can afford the real item buy the real item.

 

Of course it is to piss off the, Smug, snotty, condescending, know it all, always better types.

See how well it works!

 

Hi Dennis - I tend to come at this problem more from the point of view of one who owned a 1960s Ferrari 2+2, than one who grew up w/ a 500 Mondial in the garage. Having put about 10,000 miles on one of these great old cars, it blows my mind that people would chop them up. It makes me wonder whether the people who desperately want a "250GTO" have ever driven a well-maintained 250GTE; the sound track is as inspiring. Maybe half of the GTE production survive, and best guess is that close to 100 have been used for replicas of various descriptions.

 

And guys that can't afford it but can afford to have one built? Just suffer because somebody on a message board tells them they shouldn't make a replica ? You can make all the gauges, upholster the car (most have been re-upholstered anyway), buy or re-create the badges etc. Does that make the copy art as well? The design is the art, the unique thing about the cars along with the history. But, without the design, the history doesn't happen. Without any racing history at all, a fully restored real 250GTO would still be worth millions even if no part on it other than the data plate is still original. That makes no sense to me, particularly if I'm more interested in experiencing the car than a particular example's provenance.

 

Copying something is not the same thing as creating something. Plagarism. Stealing.

You can fool some of the people some of the time. And you may be able to fool most of the people most of the time. But you cannot fool all the people all the time. AL

 

A copy may be art, but you have to decide whether a 250 GTO bodied by Scaglietti is the same as one bodied by the guy who graduated at the top of his metalworking class at the local community college.

What he said.

 

That is fair. And I too object to a fine running GTE being scrapped to make a GTO, TR or a hot rod, as well. But, I forgive someone that comes across a rusted non-running GTE and turns it into a dream ride, replica, hot rod, or garage art, when restoring it back to mint GTE shape is cost prohibitive compared to the alternatives and will probably remain so for another decade or two.

Is a replica made from scratch with only a found engine/engine block as a base a real sin? Is such a car an abomination, or only those that distroy viable "lesser" classics?