David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Guys,

Regarding Miurasv question on width of wheels on Can Am.

Has anyone access to photographic evidence of how the Can Am looked when it was originally created by Ferrari?

I have a hunch that the body this Can Am wore recently was not the original one it wore when it left the factory, hence it would originally have had narrower rear wheels.

Just to clarify, my hunch is based on memory, so may be incorrect, but would be good to verify and then establish who had the wider wheels manufactured and fitted.

Regards

Jong

 

Can you see any difference between the wheels on P4 0856 or the Can Am car?
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P4 603 wheels and tires are narrower and have different contact area and aspect ratio than 603C Can Am Wheels and tires.

If one has access to the Ferrari owners site the tire sizes for both are clearly listed.

 

Different size tyres can be used on the same rims. The Ferrari web site gives slightly different tyre sizes for the 330 P4 and 350 Can Am car. The info on that site is not 100% accurate. Please can you state your source that says the wheels on the 0858 Can Am car are type 603C and not type 603?

 

@jong

As I said previously Piper fit 603C Can AM wheels and tires to 0854 at one time and this necessitated blowing out the rear wheel wells as you can clearly see in this period photo of Piper's handy work.

As HP goes up you do need more tire and the original P 4 sized wheels and tires can be a bit tricky to master as you can see from the photo of me starting off in the Historic Targa Florio in 0846 and that's why Ferrari went wider and increased contact patch for The 350 Can Am. (Note rear tires slipping and laying down rubber)
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@Jong

The differences between 350 Can Am and P4 also include different typo suspension among other thing to fit these wider wheels and tires. (603C)

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142355877-post894.html

 

Hmm. My info (Christian Huet) is that the bodywork on 0854 was widened by David Piper to accommodate the P4 type 603 rear wheels which are 3 inches wider at 12.5" than the 9.5" wide type 593 and 604 rear wheels previously used on 412P 0854. I would be most grateful if you would state where you have seen the type 603C wheels referenced or say what your source is that says that type 603C wheels exist and also how wide they are.

 

Such a beautiful machine. Such a shame to relegate it to the status of a rebuildable core, for the gratification of some unknown Walter Mitty with compensation issues. I am shedding an imaginary tear at the loss.
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It's going to be very interesting to see what becomes of 0858 after it sells. 11MUSD seems like a bargain for the 350 CanAm looking at what 0704 and 0728 just traded hands for. It seems more and more likely that the eventual buyer will reconvert the car back to a certifiable 350 CanAm car. I know people have contacted Ferrari asking if 0858 can be certified if it is not a 'P4'. What a mess, an interesting mess, but what a mess.

 

@Napolis. Does the Ferrari Owner's site you mentioned earlier refer to the wheels on 0858 350 Can Am as being type 603C and not type 603? What are the difference in sizes of the tyres and more importantly does it give the wheel sizes of 0858 350 Can Am?

 

....
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What a mess.

 

I didn't get an answer to my questions regarding the type 603C that Napolis alleges exist. Does anyone else have evidence that type 603C wheels exist and if so what the actual rim width is? I would really like to know.

 

I think it all boils down to this.
0858 was originally a P4, ok no problem with that.
None whatsoever.
But then, after the 1967 prototype season, Ferrari converted it to a Can Am car.
Ok, once again, no problem.
Was it successful as a Can Am car? No.
Does that in any way make it less of an iconic Ferrari? No.
There are some of us that do NOT measure an 'iconic' car by its success or lack thereof on the track. Just a quick glance of the drivers who sat behind the wheel of this Ferrari should put it in the iconic class alone.
This particular car which represents a part of the Ferrari racing history that is no more. And THAT is something that I am adverse to. It should have been left as is.

 

This is what I had hoped for earlier on. I was told I was dreaming

Since Enzo was most likely a dreamer I'm gonna go with it.

You never know. The market for this car could be that it may be worth preserving the last Can Am car to the right decent human.

That's what I'd like to see happen. If you need a P4 this bad call Norwood and drive the doors off it.

 

0704 TR has recently sold? When? To whom? How much?

 

Yes, recently, I can't disclose that, and 30MUSD.

 

I'm calling you out, JG-- Everyone on this board knows you had the resources to save this example (from the start) and yet it has denegrated into a B&M thread that will likely detour any buyer.

S**t or get off the pot?

 

Jim made good faith efforts to buy this car in May 2009 at RM Maranello. Seller could not meet with him on price. End of story.

 

And why should the seller have met with him on price? The car was worth more.

 

You have a love is blind view of the price for this car. The fact remains the car was unsold, thus it is possible that Jim's offer was the highest offer ... If that was the case then this is the most the car is worth, but not anymore. For Jim at least the car now has lost it's value.
Pete

 

Who is saying the seller *should* have met with him on price? Certainly not me.
I said, 'Seller *could* not meet with him on price.'
Jim came up with a number of what he was willing to pay and that was not enough for the seller.
Back to where we were two posts ago. End of story.

That's an entirely different thing than Value.
You say the car was worth more.
More to whom?
Not to Jim.
It was worth $7.25M Euro on the day to the high bidder. It was a no sale because in the seller's mind, 'it was worth more' than that.

By going to Italy on the day and being to go all in for many millions of dollars, Jim gets a pass on posts like CMY's (whether it was tongue in cheek or not) about what he should or shouldn't have done.

We can go on and on like this all day, but it's just another red herring.
Like the many false equivalences cited in this thread where someone pulls up a serial number which is no basis for comparison to the particular case of 0858. Red herrings, all of them.
The real topic of the thread is destruction of a piece of history in hopes of making a quick profit.

It's really tiresome to hear people's endless justifications for this travesty but I suppose the thread survives because those blinded by the spectre of what once was aren't willing to see the thing for what it is.
So be it.

 

Pete I did a quick check and if I have my facts right, the high bid (no sale) at RM Maranello in May 2009
-Four years ago for anyone thinking this has only been on the market for a short while-
was for $7.25M Euros, which was north of what Jim was willing to pay.
Cheers, Dave

 

As I said a couple posts ago, 11MUSD looks mighty 'cheap' right now in light of what is changing hands and for how much. The car will be re-converted eventually, it's all but guaranteed that this won't end cleanly.

 

IMO I was the highest real bid at 5mm e. If you watch the video you can see R of RM trying to get me to buy the car at a touch over 7.25. I told him I was at 5 and if he really had 7.25 why wasn't he pushing that bidder? Max kept looking at us hoping R could make magic but I wasn't paying any more than I thought the car was worth and it NS'd.

Now that this original 350 Can Am has been Butchered I think it's worth a LOT less than my 2009 bid.