Saw a nice 512Tr today in the same color as my car. Dont worry, Im stickin with the leaner and faster car..... But I was curious as to some visual comparisons. Who has some side by side shots from the font, sides, and rear of two next to each other? If you have an overlay wheelbase to wheelbase as those old road and track features - you get bonus points. Help a brotha out for a picture fix! Robb
Clearly, the 355 evolved from the TR and 512 TR. Actually, one thing I really love about Ferrari is the slow evolution of the body styles and similarities. I think Ferrari maintains a great heritage.
I felt that way until the day the 360 came out. I think I cried a little inside (who knows, maybe even outside!). While I could certainly see the heritage in the 360, it was too radical a departure for me - then again, I think I've always been more on the conservative side. When BMW went through the Bangle years, I felt the same way about the Bangle 5 and 7 - I couldn't take it. Then the latest 5 came out, and I fell back in-love again (I've warmed to the 7, but it's just not the same car anymore). The 360 has since grown on me, and the 430 helped, as well. But like BMW's Bangle years, it wasn't until the 458 that I saw the lines I loved starting to return to their mid-engine flagship! While I realize that the 360 is actually a "better car" (after all, Ferrari made it to improve on the 355) in technical terms - speed/power, reliability, improvement to the F1 system, etc, I just never warmed up to it as I did every previous mid-engine v8. I think the parts of the design I had the hardest parts with were: - The front-end was too rounded. While squared-off was out, and round was in from a design perspective, It never felt right to me. It had an aggressive look (arguably more than a 355), but it lost something I couldn't put my finger on. - The 355 had taken the door scoops to a level of sexiness unmatched by any of the previous cars. The lines were clean, aggressive, yet elegant and functional. The 360's elongated and smaller, significantly-rear-of-the-door scoop just left me feeling like the side view of the car was a bit more plain. This is where emotion probably conflicts with function, as I'm sure the reality was - that's all that was needed, and anything more would have added drag or something non-functional. - The 360's butt was just higher - almost too high for me - which made the side profile lines of the car swoop just a little higher towards the rear than I liked, and gave the impression there was too much sheet metal between the rear tire and top of the car's rear profile... making it also appear a bit more bulky. - No more conventional buttresses on the 360 - having been a staple for decades, maybe a design person would say, "it couldn't last forever," but I would have liked to see a more gradual evolution. I think it's cool that you can see the 360's v8 under a nice sheet of glass (Audi thought it was cool too!), but I do miss the conventional buttress design. - Last but not least... where the heck is the GTS?? I think targa tops may have been seen as a design element of days-gone-by... all I can think of as to why they discontinued the great tradition. Anyway, sorry - didn't mean to turn the thread into "why the 360 design didn't live up to the 355 in Eric's mind" - but even after all that, I will say I still drool when I see one, and I do love the car... just not how I love a 355.
Here's some that google came up with... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Tim, I meant that I'm sticking with my 355. But who doesn't like the 512TR..? Would love one someday. The TR comes from '85 when the 328 came out so I can understand that the design is 10 years older than the 355. But I think it is interesting to see the similarities. I agree that the family resemblance is there. The 355 went to the gym. I thought that I read in the media that Ferrari sold fewer 512m's because of the gap being closed in performance from the 355 8-cylinder at a much lower cost. The 355 came out around $130k. The 512 TR and M were over $200k right? The later 12's had he top end but started to lose out on the track. The 550 had better numbers on track and all others on the chart though at the end of the 355 run. Look at the 355 challenge car time on the fiorano though. And it had a six speed manual (no F1) Only a few seconds off the f40.... Robb Ferrari 355 Fiorano lap time - 1:34.00 (6-speed) 1:25.40 (355 Challenge) Max speed 300 kph (186 mph) 0 - 100 kph(62mph) 4.6 s 0 - 200 kph 16.5 s 0 - 100 mph 10.5 s 1/4 mile 12.7 s @ 112 mph 1000 m 23.4 s @ 143 mph 512TR Fiorano lap time - 1:35.00 (Same for 512m) Max speed 316 kph (195.92 mph) 0 - 100 kph 4.5 s 0 - 200 kph 14.2 s 0 - 100 mph 9.1 s 1/4 mile 12.4 s @ 116 mph 1000 m 23.4 s @ 146 mph Testarossa Fiorano lap time - 1:36.00 Max speed 297 kph (184.14 mph) 0 - 100 kph 5.3 s 0 - 200 kph 18.8 s 0 - 100 mph 11.6 s 1/4 mile 13.4 s @ ? 1000 m 24.3 s @ ? Dimensions Ferrari 355 Wheelbase 2,451 mm (96.5 in) Length 4,249 mm (167.3 in) Width 1,900 mm (75 in) Height 1,171 mm (46.1 in) Curb weight 1,350 kg (2,976 lb) 512TR Wheelbase 2,550 mm (100.4 in) Length 4,485 mm (176.6 in) Width 1,941 mm (76.4 in) Height 1,135 mm (44.7 in) Curb weight 1,471 kg (3,243 lb) Testarossa Wheelbase. 2,550 mm (100.4 in) Length 4,485 mm (176.6 in) Width 1,976 mm (77.8 in) Height 1,130 mm (44.5 in) Curb weight 1,506 kg (3,320.2 lb)
Well said....I agree with each and every point.....except that I still do not have any feelings for the 360/430. Sure, they are mechanically better,but the styling is a tremendous miss. I can see none of the styling evolution.
Robb, what a great response. I just had to call out the word "faster" I love the 355. It was a tough decision picking between the 512tr and a 355. I felt like the lower production numbers on the 512tr would possibly make finding one in the future more difficult, so I tried one first. In addition, although the 355 is much faster, I still feel similarities to my 308. One day I hope to find a 355 and here is why.... 1) it is beautiful! It is a clear evolution of the Tr design with a much cleaner and sculpted rear end. Also, I love the evolution with the four tail lamp round lights. (The modern departure In the California and 458 are awful) 2) the sound! I am trying to still understand the love of the Ferrari 12....my 512tr still does not have the scream of the 355. Although I do not have the pic you want, I hope you like this....to me I see two very different designs. The 355 would be the love child. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Great point about the refined, but still wide, rear end... I like your combo. A black 512TR is just about perfect. I think the 355 looks so much like a cleaned up TR. hence my request for those combo photos. Thanks again for your thoughts. Robb
I had the exact same dilemma and in the end, though I have a soft spot for the tr as it is one of my all time favorites (as is the 355), I couldn't get myself to spend $20k more for a car that was no faster and arguably slower on a track just to have 12 cylinders. I certainly thought about it and almost bought 2 different tr's, but went 355 and can't say I regret it. Both great cars with great styling, though the 355 is definitely a 'prettier' car and the tr more aggressive. A black tr is one of the most sinister looking cars there is.
My Brother in law in Detroit saw a black TR on Tuesday and said it was the lowest widest thing he had seen. I called it a black hole on the roll to him... Darth Vaders daily I said... He loved it. Yet it is only a half inch wider each side and an inch and a half lower than the 355 so I say it's academic... I'll put Dave's black 355 up against a black TR and will guarantee the same onlooker reaction for each. BOTH great. I told my brother about my 355 yesterday - we haven't talked in a while. I sent him to YouTube to see what they sound like. This is his quote: Holy ****! You bought THAT CAR? That sound is amazing. Nuf said. Slight edge to 355. Robb
