David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

You can shrink metal with an English Wheel?

 

Absolutely. Flatter wheels and more space between them. It's effective at smoothing the bumps that result from shaping with a mallet and bag.

 

BMWairhead,

The photo of the Alfa Giulia SS below shows what planished bodywork looks like. Image from Giulia SS Bondo Sculpture - Page 6 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

It's nothing like a English wheeled body. Sure when primed and painted hard to tell but we are talking about an Italian race car that originally would have had very little paint preparation and thus the bodywork preparation would have been visible.

For the expected $25M they should have made it exactly as it was ... even if that meant having spagetti and red wine for lunch!
Pete
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Anyone who can't easily tell the difference from a properly made P car body and one made incorrectly on an English wheel after very little paint preparation as you correctly point out sprayed with the correct thin coat of 1967 rossa corsa lacquer (The exact code of which VERY few get right) should immediately get tested for glaucoma.

 

Isn't that the main reason why this car has been rebuilt into the P4 form ? But does a non successfull racing career make a car non interesting ? And is that enough to justify the extinction of the 350 Can-Am ?

As it did not win, somebody decides that it is not good enough to be kept as is.
What about that 50 + pages of debate if the 350 Can-Am had won the Can-Am championship ? My guess is that everybody would have treated that car differently and as a consequence the rebuilt into P4 form as a big mistake. But these are the same cars (P4 / 350 Can-Am) only seen from a different point of view.

Remember for instance that the Lola T70 MK3 coupe did not win any major events in period (correct me if I am wrong) except the 24 hours of Daytona (which is already an achievement I agree). And today, everybody wants a T70 MK3 coupe because it is a front runner and it is beautiful, ... even if it was a relatively non successfull race car in period.

 

After slogging through much of this thread, I'm reminded of the old saying: "This is my grandfather's axe. My dad replaced the head and I replaced the handle."

 

Yes it is! No its not! Uh huh! Nuh uh! Is so! Is not!.....yawn.
This was really interesting for a while.
I wish the last 350 CanAm would have been saved. Thats all.

 

I agree completely. I sometimes think how I would feel if it turned out David Piper was a total sham. Until then I will continue to go with history as written by those who know the full story. tongascrew

 

This is a new "old saying" for me.It sounds great. Can you expand on the relevance to the issue. thanks tongascrew

 

Hi thanks very much for your kind words. I can only only say that Enzo Ferrari must have seen something in David Piper to bring him to the conclusion to unload everything available of the P 3/4 cars at the Scuderia to him.I don't think any thing like this had ever been done before or was ever repeated. Will we never know the real story? Probably not. We will know more about what Carter found in Tut's tomb. I can only hope someone gets at least one side of the story from David Piper.I wonder who else is still around who was there "at the creation"? I have always been interested in "archeaology." Lets hope someone will do some digging at this site. Marcel Massini or Pierro?? tongascrew

 

This is fun Jim.I have been treated for glaucoma for almost twenty years. Now, before you jump in and say that explains everything, I can see with corrected assistance just about as well as I did twenty years ago.I can't resist but maybe you need to get your eye's checked. Just a joke? tongascrew

 

Theseus' paradox. Or Trigger's Broom as we like to say over here.

 

George Washington was your granddad?

 

I prefer to remember 0858 as an original P4 with a reasonable but brief factory race record in major events rather than a not so beautiful and total failure as a group 7 Can Am with 5 wins out of over 20 starts against mostly minor competition in relatively minor events. The restoration of 0858 to, as near as possible, its original P4 specs is a totally reasonable effort done by the right people. tongascrew

 

Agree........

 

Well the owners of this car better hope there is at least one sucker out there with your mindset and a giant pile of money.

>8^)
ER

 

Surely just money for old cars Enzo was no longer interested in?

Pete

 

Well, I think 8-Ball makes it quite clear, but to expand: This car has been through a few changes. At some point one has to ask what's original.

I suppose a more appropriate view is to just see this as another step in a long sequence of events comprising the car's evolution.

It seems the main issue here is one of ethics, and it boils down to these points:

Is it being misrepresented?

Does this modification obliterate some aspect of the car's history?

This latest modification is mostly cosmetic, as opposed to a change that was deemed necessary to campaign the car. Is this somehow less genuine?

Is this work being done because someone has a pecuniary interest in the outcome?

BTW, I think the answers (in order) are: no (the history is known), yes, maybe and unknown.

 

Actually this is not true. This car was 100% original before this process to return it to a P4 started. Yes 100% original!
Pete

 

Good point. I think your reasoning is spot-on.

 

For something to be original it must not have been derived/converted from something else. 0858 was an original P4 and was never an original Can Am car. Now, 0858 is being reconfigured to its P4 original form.

 

Never an original Can Am? Why, because they constructed it incorporating some used parts?

You also ought to re-think your blanket statement about originality: according to that, 90% of ALL Ferrari's are non-originals.

Apart from the above, the car is hardly put back in P4 configuration.

Best,

Jack.

 

True. It was the last original 350 Can Am existent. Now it is one of two Piperised 350 Can AM's with replica P4 bodies, the one with a replica P4 body made incorrectly.

IMO the length of time that this one has been on offer shows that many understand exactly what it is and what it is not and what it's Piperised value is and isn't which as you pointed out earlier is likely less than it was before it was butchered.

 

0858 was a genuine Can Am but it was not an original Can Am as it was a conversion from a P4. 0858 cannot have been both an original P4 and an original Can Am. For 0858 to have been an original Can Am it would have had to have started life as a Can Am. 0866 was possibly an original Can Am.

 

I hate it when old ladies pretend they're in their youth.


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