OK, thought I'd share some recent data on an experiment with redline water wetter and water no antifreeze. first it's not the F-car, but the daily driver mercedes W126 aka 300se. these motors are notorious for head-gasket problems due to poor design on the oil to water jacket passage. So with a recent trip out to Las Vegas this week I decided to put it to the test and see how it'd do with water and two bottles of the redline surfactant. Sunday out to Palm Desert, temps mid 90's ambient, engine ran 80c / 176 F with A/C on the entire time, stop and go traffic it moved up ~5 F. On to Las Vegas, it wasn't much hotter on Monday, Tuesday it hit 107F engine stayed at 176 F, in stop and stop crawl traffic it climbed to 194 F, A/C running the entire time. hauling across the desert at the posted limit in 109~111 F temps the engine temps swung between 176~185 F with the A/C running, the increase was during some of the grade climbs. So all in all I'm quite impressed again with the ability of this product, given the high temps right now I'm not concerned about freezing. This is not the first time I've done this though, the Mondial has been without antifreeze since I bought it 8yrs ago. I've taken it through the desert with the A/C wheezing in 100+F temps and with the supercharger and the engine stayed cool as well. apparently there is an issue with the Redline water wetter and antifreeze forming a sticky sludge when heat cycled, I've been fortunate to not have the problem as I've not been running antifreeze. Royal Purple is reportedly better in that it won't react in that manner.
Interesting notes about Water Wetter vs Royal Purple. I'm probably overdue to replace coolant on a vehicle or two, do you have any pointers to further information on the sludge, or would you recommend just a general google search?
Yes, the expansion tank in my 550 still bares traces of that brownish sludge, even after two coolant flushes. The Water Wetter didn't react well with the Glycoshell antifreeze that I'm using.... Stefano
I appreciate the info and the intent behind it but would the engine/coolant not have been likely to have produced all those same effects with nothing but tap water in it?
Tap water contains minerals which form deposits in the cooling system (e.g. scale) and should be avoided. Distilled water alone is the perfect coolant but does not protect the engine from corrosion, that's why you need to mix it with something else... Stefano
I appreciate that tap water alone is harmful to the engine and cooling system internals (over an extended period of time), I just don't see anything in the numbers that one couldn't achieve achieve if one were running just tap water.
Racers swear by Water Wetter. I use in in my V12 XKE convert I keep in Palm Desert. I have been told NOT to use two..only one bottle. I was told more than one actually reverses the effect?? I dunno....but... I did as you did. I put two in and it did seem to heat up more!! BTW... headed out there to PD today to check on things....115 to 116 degrees...yikes.
I also had a case of the brown sludge in my system from Water Wetter. Think the BMW coolant may have been the catalyst, as I never had the problem with Toyota red coolant. It was the first time in 10 years I'd ever had an issue with WW, but it was enough to stop me from using it.... Just as an aside, running pure water and a corrosion inhibitor will drop top tank temperatures better than any other coolant, as pure water can carry more heat than any other normal heat transfer fluid. Being able to carry more heat/pound means it requires less deltaT than other less efficient fluids (50/50 mixes, Evans, etc.) to carry the same amount of heat. This means a lower top tank temperature (or temperature coming out of the engine).
water is the best for thermal transfer, in a pure water system any hot spots will form air pockets from the water taking on too much heat and phase transit to steam, once that happens it tends to get worse and then pressures drop which drop the boiling point,etc.. water wetter and royal purple are essentially surfactants that alter the surface tension of water so that it will take more energy before it transits to steam. as to the sludge and redline's product it seems to be an issue with certain coolants, which ones I don't know exactly, a google search would probably suss that info out. I used two bottles in the mondial because the cooling system is 24L / 6.3gal, that's a big cooling system, and I've got a bigger radiator so it's now closer to 8gal. Redlines recommendation is 1 per 3~5gal and 2 for larger systems. In the mercedes I had been using 1 bottle but switched up to 2 since I was heading out to the desert and the 1 bottle temps were not low enough in traffic around here where the temps are mild, I do need to replace the headgasket as it is though. I've been using redline water for decades, first time was in the old BMW club racer, glycol on the track is a no no, slippery snot when it dumps, like hitting a bleach box.
I had to smile at this, either keep the Jag on the coast where the weather is near perfect to drive it and watch it dissolve before your eyes, or store it in the desert where it will last for decades but it's so hot that driving it may boil the contents. in-laws dropped the kids of last night and headed back to the oven that'll be this weekend. stay cool, 115+ is not fun.
I've tried it several times in cars with undersized cooling systems which were in top flight condition over the years and I've found exactly zero effect with this stuff. Maybe my water is already wet enough ...
well if there already in top flight condition what would it improve? the car will not run cooler then the thermostat, so at best it'll run a min temp of thermostats opening range provided it's not cold winter weather. most cars have very good cooling systems, although ferrari's are large by comparison to the std they suffer from lack of proper air bleeding, poor impeller design and surface area for heat transfer on the radiator along with poor airflow thru it. the 348 forward went to saddle tanks to improve the airflow issue. though I think that this stuff was in reality a product for the racing scene as glycol is dangerous on the track. I've been wondering though based purely on the chemistry what effect would be seen with putting in a bit of HE laundry detergent? it's a surfactant and designed not to really foam up, though no idea on the electrolysis effect in the engine...might be a good way to clean out the system though. disclaimer... don't try it unless you want to assume any and all risks...
as in the hydrogen bonding? the electron charge and it's relation to surface tension? I guess I'm being an ass now tho the basics is that the water is a polar molecule, this means that the chain of charges will cause water to form beads or droplets. the goal is to break this bond and relax the surface tension so that it spreads out more, thus increasing waters wet-ability. there are many ways chemically to do this, it comes down to the application and environment in question. they also alter the viscosity hence the recommendation of amounts to cooling capacity, the altered viscosity can effect the thermal transfer as well, a balancing act, it's very minor though.
Running coolant in a car is really only required if you deal with cold weather. So unless it's my daily driver, I run straight water and Water Wetter in my track cars. Just if you don't use the cars in the winter, to drain the cooling system before storage.
Wrong. You also have the anti-corrosive benefits and lubrication requirements to be met. But plain water will do better in hot weather.
The purpose is to provide better conductivity between the water and cooling passages. If your system is being over stressed then that increases the capacity of the system to cool. It has nothing to do with the thermostat which will be wide open if the system is being over stressed. If you're not experiencing this problem then you don't need it and that's the best thing. In the cases I tried they were over stressed systems (under designed capacity) so they were a perfect candidate. I noticed nothing in the way of an improvement.
I wonder if the Water Wetter Elixir Marketing Company actually even understands about conductivity, heat transfer, or fluid dynamics, if they are passing this concoction as one that enhances heat transfer, however the means. Heat transfer in liquids has little to do with conductivity and has much more relevance with specific heat capacity. That is why water alone is so much more effective than most other fluids, if it wasnt for the fact (which everyone is aware of) that it alone will cause corrosion, and friction. Concuctivity is electrical transfer through a medium, specific heat values are more relevant to liquids.
Thermal conductivity is a different phenomenon than electrical conductivity, and the former affects cooling systems.
