David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Why own a 330 P4? There were a few of those.

I would much rather own a 350 P4 as they are much rarer seeing there was only one ever re-built.

 

Replicas are entitled to imperfections.Restortions ,of originals, not so much if any. But there are vey few if any originals that are today completely as original The same will go for 0858 when completed. tongascrew

 

You may be right but I hope not. How about grid of several P4s including 0858 and a group of similar period competitipn cars as the flag drops at an Historic track event. The owners might not drive all of them but I am sure there are some retired F1 drivers who would jump at the chance. Rev limiters a must. tongascrew

 

How much P4 are they actually restoring in 0858?

From most accounts, next to nothing.

Some 'restoration'

 

I thought there were two. PB's?

 

You're right. Wasn't figuring in the past "example"

 

not true; we scored 100 points, won the Ferrari Competition class as well as the Enzo Ferrari trophy at Pebble 2008 with a single coat of lacquer, not buffed or compounded - the way the Factory would have treated a comp car paint job in 1955. There is orange peel galore; some places you can see your reflection, others you cannot.

I do not disagree that over-restoration is rampant, but it is not always the case and the constant disparagement of cars at Pebble is not always warranted.

 

You have a lovely car, BTW. Let's meet Sunday and examine the cars together. My point is not intended to be disparaging. I'm simply stating that 1: over restoration is rarely deducted, and 2: spray bondo is becoming more mainstream in shops considered to be high end. This is in contrast to a post which proclaimed that shops that use bondo are no good.

I personally don't mind that this is the trend, and i don't condemn the process. In fact, i kind of like it. But a spade should be called a spade, IMHO.

 

This is not true. They are starting to take points off for even the slightest over-restoration now. We has a 400SA Cabriolet that was a Pininfarina factory show car back in the day. Something that you would expect to be finished to the finest standards (unlike a race-car). We had a point deducted for "Paint too shiny". It was not painted with some crazy modern incorrect paint, just a perfect period black lacquer paint job. But all it takes is one judge that is too subjective.

 

That's interesting to know! I'll recalibrate my thoughts on the subject.

BTW, I realized my posts are contradictory. First I say "sadly", and then I say I like it. Answer is I like "shiny smooth car" results as much as the next guy, regardless of the means used to get there.

 

Two different things, perhaps? Think the use of bondo as filler vs. metal is what may've been proclaimed as no good ...? Though guessing light use for the purpose of making a car arrow straight (even post all-metal repair) may've been in practice for a while at even the best shops.

 

It will probably go the other way at some point, such as adding fake patina by hand beating any new metal to provide a rougher finish rather than the higher quality produced by an english wheel.

I very much doubt clear lacquer was used in period either on solid colour race cars such as red, all it would do is add weight, the enemy of any race team. Clear would only been applied to metallic base coats only. Good old T cut would have brought the finish up.

Its more commonly used on base colours now as the water based paints are not resilient enough with solid colour.

If one of the known high end ferrari collectors were to purchase 0858 such as Eric Clapton, Sultan of Brunei etc and then requested Ferrari to go though the car with a fine tooth comb and certify all the period P4 components linked to 0858 I am sure they would oblige. At the end of the day money talks and Ferrari like to listen.

Has any Ferrari official actually ever commented publically about the conversion of 0858 back to a P4? if so where?

I notice lots of the Ferrari specialists have been very quiet to comment on this thread over the conversion, I am sure if they were not favourable to it they would have made themselves known.

 

From Talacrest's FB page today.
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Dear Mr. Napolis I assume your amount of 12 $ is for $12 Million for the W196 Most of the time you are correct about your subject matter but not this time. Boy were you off. Let's see how you do with 0858 P4 when it's done and for sale. Want to make a prediction on that one. Like a certain also failed Republican Presidential candidate, want to bet 10 grand on your estimate what ever it is. Let's see whatcha got.Maybe someone will take you up on the bet.Would make great headlines. My bet is somewhere around $12-$15 Mil but I 'm just a little guy and can't come up with 10Gs. I'll give Big Louie from Chicago a ring.He's probably recovered by now from that floating crap game in New York and He and Nicely Nicely might want to take the bet. Isn't this fun! tongascrew

 

Is this really neccessary?

You're blowing any sliver of credibility you have left with this one.

This is the rant of a jealous five year old IMO.

 

As I said in post #1411 this thread is filled to the brim with "ifs" etc etc and "abstract comments" The comments you criticize to seem to be based at least on published references which I rely also rely on. Also I think you owe Jim an apology for implying that he "cannot read". tongascrew

 

When ever I read a comment like this I really think it's to bad this person doesn't really know anything about the only person after Mr. Ferrari passed who knows more about the P series Ferraris than David Piper. And much of what Piper has done was with the blessing and assistance of Enzo Ferrari himself and over a period of 20 years. People like this for a long time continued to believe the Earth was flat and there was no Evolution of the Species. Do your homework and if you still disagree with Piper at least we can have some respect for what you have to say. tongascew

 

I was taking you as someone who may have a point of view before this.

this whole site has degenrated into a group of people, mostly who dont even own an italian car let alone a ferrari pontificating to the extreme for entertainment.

Pity there used to be intelligent debate here and it was educational and informative. Now we just get angry drivel, its like abad sex site.

 

I have the upmost respect for Piper's racing career and understand his role in maintaining P cars (as I have already stated), and respect the fact that he did just that.

That doesn't mean I have to respect his involvement in cannibalising the only remaining Can Am for the sake of profits and the incorrect methods used and pounds of bondo visable reduces that respect even further.

You seem to think what's happening to this car is a good thing and subsequently I don't care if you respect my opinion or not.

Enzo gave his blessing for Piper to race and maintain his cars, not destroy them to pretend they are something they aren't.

If I wanted a replica P4 to have fun with I would put my money into a Norwood. If I wanted a real one I would place a phone call to a certain Mr Stroll. If I wanted a Can Am dressed as a P4 I would call Talacrest.

 

I was with you on one or two points regarding this not too accurate reversion simply because I am heavily influenced by aesthetics.

I think you've said enough.

This thread should be locked and the armchair experts etc go play with their Alfa's.

Game over.

 

I don't agree with locking it.

I enjoy this thread and the knowledge I've gained from it.

After all it is just one man's opionion. An opinion I once respected and earlier on thought was knowledgable but have come to realize isn't worthwhile.

I think Ginge82 summed it up pretty well...

I think it is important to keep this thread going as the debate over this is still ongoing.

The truth is, when it comes to 0858, it doesn't matter who is the worlds leading P4 expert is as the car is not a P4. It's a Can Am and needs an owner who would maintain it as such.

Just another man's opinion Vincent Vangool.

 

I knew The Cavalry would reach us.

 

From what I understand when someone puts you on "ignore" he cannot read what you write.

I may be wrong. But I don't think I am.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142388860-post1156.html

 

Correct.