Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Not the car we are talking about. Ralph has had the LM for many years now.

 

at least we can agree to disagree.

for a $1mn I don't want it as a daily driver. It should be super exotic. And at this level of performance a few extra hp or few tenths of seconds are meaningless. It's difficult enough trying to use all the performance a lowly (700hp)Aventador delivers.

 

The original F1 sold horribly - after all who would want one of those? I'd much rather have the F50 lease.....hahahaha

 

The McLaren F1 was and still is a very bland looking car. I doubt anybody buys them for their looks though.

When I showed my wife one once, she was completely confused at what all the fuss was about. I reckon you could drive one to work without normal people even noticing the car.
Pete

 

The Mclaren P1 if you're doing track days (which i'm you should be doing with this level of performance/ability)
Ferrari F70 for road driving / showing off/ sex
The Porsche for a diluted (?) compromise of all three!

P1 for me

 

Yes.

 

Not: " hahahaha"

That would be:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

Anyone know when we will get to see the definitive LaF? It has been so long since Geneva, you would have thought the car would be finished now... Either that or they got the wrong year and should have displayed at Geneva '14...

 

Psk, so this F1 is what you would call a wolf in sheep clothing?
Also, perhaps some people prefer to not to stand out so conspicuousley and perhaps this is why they have buyed the F1? So they can destroy the competition in a very boring looking car. I wonder.

 

You throw a high downforce kit on a F1 and it changes the looks dramatically.

But that was a car of a different time, raw, not overly electronic. Something that I think will affect the values of cars like the LaF, P1, and 918 in the future. How viable is it going to be to restore a car with this many electronics? Im guessing not very.

 

Why? Throw a new circuit board in, same inputs, same outputs, and you are good to go. It's done all the time.

 

Yes and No. As electronics age exact replacements become unavailable. You can reverse engineer components and you can replace entire ecu's but getting a very complicated KERS System to run 20 years from now will be harder than you might think. It can be done as some have done with 959's but it's not simple and there will be no way to keep these cars "original" looking down the line.

The maintenance manual for our KERS system and specially designed charger is hundreds of pages long. We have access to engineers and a lot of things that many restoration shops don't much less DIY'ers.

I'm sure that Porsche will make it work and note that McLaren is still to go to source for excellent F1 service. I hope Ferrari keeps a lot of spares around so that 20 years on fixing a La Ferrari won't take massive work. Try sourcing a dash board for an F50. Turbo's for a 288.
A front lifter for an Enzo. Head gaskets for an F40.

 

unobtanium parts are the scourge of classic car ownership. after the intial thrill of the chase wears off the reality is rather tedious and off-putting. even applies to some modern classics especially ferrari. porsche much much better

 

i have 2 friends in hk that bought both LaF and p1. wonder how many people have bought 2 of the 3 or all 3

 

The F1 is aesthetically pure....in many ways the antithesis of a Lamborghini. The F1 is pure the way a muscular thoroughbred racehorse is pure. It's clean and efficient lines are purposeful and yet graceful and will stand the test of time. Anyone who believes an F50 is a better car than an F1 must drive both in order to have a true appreciation.

 

Hello Parker

You raise an interesting question....and a critical one at that.

Once upon a time sports cars were "sports" cars....much as they say, "when men were men." It was like any other sport, mastering the sport took an investment of time and a development of skill. You had to learn how to precisely time your right hand (assuming we are in a left hand drive vehicle) which shifted the gears to your left foot which worked the clutch while your right foot managed the throttle as your left hand steered the vehicle while your eyes focused on the road and your instruments while your ears focused on your machine's performance sounds, listening intently to see if an unusual sound might indicate a mechanical issue was about to arise.

Good drivers new how to drive and they knew the mechanics of their car so that when they heard or felt something they knew what it meant. The car actually communicated directly with the driver.

I tell people a good sports car is like a tennis racket...it should be nothing more than an extension of you.

Driving a little 1.6 liter Alfa Romeo Spider on a twisty country road would be a blast as you'd rev out that twin cam alloy four banger and mastered your shifts as you felt those narrow Pirelli tires drifting the car through the turns.

But you see, something happened to sports cars along the way. They become corporate. Ferrari and Lamborghini were originally nothing more than the visions of two men and the reflections of their personalities. To own a "sports car" in the 1950s, 60's and even through the mid-1980s said something about the driver/owner. These cars required work to drive. You had to work the clutch, work the unassisted power steering and these low slung race car derived/inspired cars were low to the ground so you had to be somewhat athletic just to get into the things! They were built for men who were in shape with narrow seats, small footwells and tight interiors. The men who drove these cars knew they might run and then not start up again and would require they open the hood, figure out what was wrong and fix it. So, a the owner of a sports car back in the day was typically a relatively young, athletic man who was a skilled driver who could actually work on his own car. One of my favorite pictures is of Steve McQueen, dressed in costume for a cowboy movie he was working on, gun strapped to his leg, as he's working on his Jaguar XKSS.

But what happened was Ferrari came under the ownership/leadership of a major corporation (Fiat) as did Lamborghini (VW). Their leaders realized they would make a lot more money selling more expensive cars to older guys. Older guys, after all, have more money (typically) than younger ones. BUT older guys are typically not in the same athletic shape as the younger ones. So Ferrari dropped the 512TR/M range in favor of a much taller, much more luxurious 550. Older guys with money want power steering. They don't want to have to work a clutch and actually shift a transmission. Most of them don't want to learn how to actually drive but they want to be able to go fast in their expensive fancy toy.

So the manufacturers are now all realizing the way to make money selling these expensive sports cars is to make them basically require no driver skill and little actual input. Traction control. Anti-lock brakes. Launch control. Flappy paddle automatic transmissions. Make them idiot proof so that if a driver goes into a turn to fast the car fixes everything for them. It's like an amusement park ride.

You can't even buy a 458 or a GT3 now with a manual transmission.

It's sad, because the "sport" aspect of a sports car is fading away fast.

A sports car is not just about speed. In the old days, you would improve your skills then want to make your car faster to push your skills further. You'd learn about cams and webers and exhaust systems and suspension settings and tweak your car at night or during the weekends. You and your car were one!

If you are looking for true sports car fun you don't really want one of these cars. The F50 is one of the last true pure Ferrari super sports cars.

In my opinion (my $0.02) one of the best all around Ferrari ever made is the 355 Spider convertible with a manual transmission. The only real concession to modern civility is its power-steering. But it is low to the ground (not easy to get in and out of), drives like a go-kart, revs to 8500 rpms and screams like an F1 racer. It has no launch control, no traction control, has three pedals and the classic metal shift gate which gives the classic Ferrari sound as you shift through the gears. If you don't know what you are doing it will spin around on you before you know it. Unlike todays Ferraris, it requires skill to drive fast. For instance, put the gas pedal to the floor at 2000 rpms and there's no torque! You need to know how and when to shift and downshift in order to keep the car in its maximum power band (4k to 8500k), but what a reward it is! In today's Ferrari must mash the peddle and the thing goes. No skill required.

It's also a car you can make better in your garage at night....to a degree. Bolt on some bigger brakes, wheels and tires, perhaps some lighter seats and a better breathing exhaust and she really comes alive. (I raced a 458 spider on the 405 north from the Manhattan Beach exit to the 10 freeway and it wasn't the 458 that was out in front most of those 11 miles

The other day I saw a Lamborghini Gallardo with the plate "HERLAMB"....the driver was getting her nails done at a nail salon.

Such is the state of the sports car world today. Very fast, very little skill required to drive as most will drive them.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYn2Lvi-G2U]Porsche 918 Spyder going to the max on the Nürburgring! - YouTube[/ame]

 

I wonder how many are actually designed and developed to be used. As an example at which point would one of the supercar makers produce a car that is not to be driven. As an example some of the XX and FXX cars wont have been driven, the Bugatti Veyron cant do 250 mph unless you modify it. Further as an investment people want low mileage. Why not produce a car that is simply not to be driven full stop, apart from the old spectre of deferred maintanence and even that wont be a problem if it is never going to be driven?
Anyone else agree with where I am going with this. At which point do these hypercars stop being cars and become objects d'art on wheels.

Frankly I hope I am totally wrong.

 

Sadly I think you're totally right.

 

It only matters how it *sounds*.

 

Good point.

 

Ha ha
I remember the great Jaguar XJ220 fiasco and so many people bought one thinking they would be rich if they paid the deposit, bought the car, parked it for 10, 20 or 30 years and then sold it. IT was kind of like you want to drive it, why ?. And then of course deferred maintanence and they get sold with zero miles and someone pays 5 - 6 figures to rebuild everything.........

How many La Ferrari's will get driven?. I personally would look back to the F40 or McLaren F1 as the last truly epic supercars, not that I have driven either of them but purely because the driving experience was noted for being incredibly direct rather than derived. And of course the McLaren F1 was superbly packaged unlike the current crop of supercars which are full of "stuff".

Just my 5 cents.

 

I actually just made an offer on a carrera GT that was accepted. I would include it in the list of, as Evo puts it, analog super cars.

And as a bonus, it sounds good!

 

You will love it. I've driven a lot of cars, but the CGT after all these years remains very special. For the money there are few cars that can match the analog F1 experience and it's sound is one of a kind.

Geno

 

Lots of people drive their exotics rather regularly. Some even track them. I don't see what the fuss is all about. Hurrah for the development of technology and advancement of performance!