The big Countach tech problem is... | FerrariChat

The big Countach tech problem is...

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by Albert-LP, Jul 21, 2013.

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  1. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #1 Albert-LP, Jul 21, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
    ...to find a good mechanic.

    But what exactly is "a good mechanic"?

    Very simple, he is the guy that:

    1) knows very well the car, knows its typical faults and knows when he can tell you "the car now works how it has to do".
    2) has a bit of knowledge about mechanical science
    3) can put his hands on your car without destroying anything
    4) has the necessary tools
    5) is intelligent
    6) has the necessary time to find what's the real problem of your car is
    7) never tells you "the problem is the actual gasoline without lead"
    8) never tells you "the car does not work well as you do not know how it has to be driven correctly"
    9) does not need your help more than one time to discover the reason why your car does not work well
    10) do not look at you like you were just a stupid rich chicken he can rob.
    11) is not too much expensive
    12) does not create by himself problems to your car just to increase the bill.
    13) just wants to fix your car.

    Thirteen points: i passed through four Lamborghini "specialists" since 2010 and now i can say i have an almost perfectly running car, but i never found a guy that could fit more than half points of the list...
     
  2. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    and the 4 names are...
     
  3. jollygood

    jollygood Formula 3

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    1) Lamborghini Service Crevalcore
    2)
    3)
    4)
     
  4. vaholtorf

    vaholtorf Formula 3
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    2) High Mountain Classics
     
  5. cdlambo

    cdlambo Rookie

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Vince Hill Automotive
     
  6. jollygood

    jollygood Formula 3

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    In Italy! Aren't they in Colorado?
     
  7. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
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    Plenty of idiots and crooks in the car business. Old cars in general and old Lamborghinis particularly, require a bit of patience and "outside the box" thinking on the part of both owner and mechanic to have a satisfying experience. My best clients are fugitives from other "experts" that worked on their cars before.
     
  8. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    when do you open a subsidiary in Europe ?
     
  9. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I have to say that he was (and still is) the best of the bunch in my personal rank.

    ciao
     
  10. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I have a big advantage over most of you: i live in Italy close to Lambo factory and here we have the best Lamborghini specialists in the the world.

    Despite this, it's very difficult to find a good mechanic here too. I think the average level of world Lambo specialist is lower than here and by far, and i think they are even more expensive.

    I do not want to say "that is bad", i just want to point out how difficult is to find a good mechanic that can have many of the 13 features.

    I'm sure that everyone here experienced a bad "Lambo" mechanic, as if i had so many (medium level) problems with mechanics despite living so close to the factory, i'm almost sure that somebody that lives in the US or overseas experienced some disasters and sinked a lot of money worthless.

    I'm sure some owners of those old cars never drove their cars in the "factory standard" running mode. And i think it worths the money, as those cars are music for ears when correctly tuned.

    So i do not want to point my finger against a name or anyone, as i think that's a big common problem worldwide when you talk about the pre-Diablo cars.

    ciao
     
  11. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    said that, I agree with you as he has my Islero V12 in his hands...
     
  12. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    OK - so being a little serious here... how many service shops are there in the world that have 20 or 30+ years of experience servicing ONLY Lamborghini's? And I really do mean ONLY Lamborghini's ie zero F cars or anything else - one that fits all the about points?

    -mick

    PS I would excluded 11 since thats a customer subjective point.
     
  13. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Pretty sure the number is zero. Even Bob Wallace has wrenched on Ferraris.

    What is your point?
     
  14. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    #14 gday, Jul 21, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
    Idle curiosity as to how many are dedicated to the brand. The shop that I use is one. And I've used the same mechanic for decades. And I feel he meets most if not all of the above points.

    -mick
     
  15. hurstjordan

    hurstjordan Rookie

    Apr 24, 2013
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    Gerald Jordan

    I am in need of someone to help me and preferably close to Dallas, Texas USA. Are there any close? As far as motor out clutch or motor rebuild who would be good a good choice here in USA? I figure at some point I will need help on something major. Also who is the vendoe of choice for a complete restore?


    Thanks Gerald
     
  16. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #16 Albert-LP, Jul 22, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
    My experience:

    1) I had to tell the mechanic where fuel tank cap was (of course he was not the Lamborghini offcial service nor the no.1 in the world Lambo specialist that mostly restored my car)

    2) three different times (and two different mechanics) he told me "the car does not run well as you do not know how to drive it correctly"


    3) eight different times (and with all four mechanics) i had to explain what real the problem was, as they were totally off course and wasting time (and my money) on the wrong pieces. Three of those times i had to solve the problem by myself with independent mechanics as they did not succeed to solve the problem neither after i told them "the problem is there, change or fix that piece".


    4) Four times (at least) i felt the mechanic knew very well what the problem was but he just wanted to waste time to increase the bill so he told me "maybe is that, maybe is this"


    5) When i take the car to a very cheap not Lambo mechanic that works on popular cars and i tell him "do that" without explaining what the problem was, the car then works great and the bill is ridicolous.

    6) when you change your Lambo specialist mechanic and take the car to another Lambo specialist, he immediately finds something that did not work and your car starts going by far better. But that is the first and last time he improves the car by himself...


    7) the last problem i had was fixed with 1,50 euro (one euro and fifty cents) in five minutes in my garage: estimated cost by the specialist was.. who knows, i did not fixed it in three previous attempts...


    ciao
     
  17. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    I agree on these points, the "6" is so true...
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    So true Tim, and thank you Alberto for starting this thread.

    Interesting you mention "owner & mechanic" because I think that with a car as old and specific as the Countach, the owner has to be both knowledgeable & involved (or have a knowledgable resource) with the mechanic for the outcome to be successful.

    I am at the point where I rarely make any recommendations, preferring instead that my clients do their own due-diligence and make their own choices. Many people contact me for recommendations, but I feel I have to give them privately. Its more a question of who to avoid, and what to watch for in others. After owning Countachs & Miuras for 28 years, I have seen it all, and perhaps this topic should be the subject of my next book :eek:
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Gerald I have some ideas and we will speak on this next week when I am back in the USA.
     
  20. On days like these

    Aug 19, 2009
    66
    If you were asking this question in England then the answer would be easy.
    Mike Pullen at Carrera Sport has been servicing and rebuilding Countach's for over 30 years and has probably forgotten more than most people know.
    It helps that he owns and drives the cars
     
  21. JonathanElstein

    JonathanElstein Karting

    Oct 19, 2010
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    In the UK I would add Colin Clarke to the list - I have dealt with him for around 20 years and he is everything you could ask for (apart from cheap!) - hugely experienced, competent and honest.

    Jonathan
     
  22. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    This biggest issue with the earlier lambos was the lack of factory support..even for the dealers at the time. Each car was slightly different from the rest. Ever try to follow a countach wiring diagram? The CIS fuel systems were fairly simple at its core, but they still remain complex, and a head scratcher for most. I have quite a few come through here, and every once and a while I have a serious head scratcher on my hands, that can sometimes takes weeks to sort out, and the issue started to happen for no apparent reason.

    These cars never had "flow charts" to help a tech fix issues. The manuals show very little in terms of what does what or where is it.

    Most of the good guys had to learn by doing. The more you do the better you get. But unfortunately, not a lot of these cars are around, and for somebody to call themselves an expert on anything where under 3000 cars were built for the world is a bit of a streach. And to try and find one who is even willing to except the challenge, including the liabilities is even harder. That's why you pay high prices.
     
  23. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #23 Albert-LP, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
    I want to add this.

    My car engine and transmission was mostly restored by No.1 in the world top ranked Lambo mechanic, you can see his picture on several Countach books. He has 42 years of Countach experience and i think at least 30 years at the Factory Official Assistance Service... If you visit his shop, you can see there several of the most famous Lambo vintage cars in the world and he has more work than he can do also today. He restored the green LP400 prototype you can see at the factory Museum. Valentino Balboni send "his" cars there. But my experience with him (better, them as the shop owner is his son and he just work there to help his son as he is retired) was not what i expected to be.
    Yes, i was very proud when himself in person called me at the phone and told me "your engine is closed and ready to start, if you want you may come here and hear the engine working as we are testing it this afternoon" It was great, but after some weeks i was no more so happy. However, he gave me a car that could work and go wherever i wanted: it was not a disaster, just an incomplete and not debugged work.

    So i think years of experience are important, but you need also other qualities: you need an "expert" to start the work and do the main things, but the car works really well just when also small things are fixed, serviced, checked and tuned.

    The most important steps towards the "perfect working mode" were done by the followin mechanics:

    1) Giancarlo Ferraresi, Mirandola (MO): an electrician that installed a booster solenoid (35 euro), changed main battery cables and starter motor cables (120 euro). He usually fixes tractors and trucks. Since then the car always starts, cold or hot.

    2) Carlo Sgarbi, a retired Weber carburator specialist, Massa Finalese (MO): he fully serviced the carbs, despite they were just serviced by... i do not want to tell who. I personally delivered the carbs to him and took back to the mechanic shop. This man is the only one that fits all 13 points.

    3) Giancarlo Breveglieri Lamborghini Service Crevalcore (BO): he discovered that the carbs linkage was not well tuned and had some weared joints, that the throttle wire was rusted and the spark timer needed a service. After those works the car improved as never before, runs smooth and started pulling like a beast also over 5000 RPM and helding fifth gear at 40 miles per hour too.

    4) Autorettifica Modenese, Modena: they opened the differential case and tuned the play between the gears. No more "clunck" noise when you selected the reverse gear or selected the first gear coming from the reverse gear. No.1 in the world Lambo mechanic said there wasn't any "clunck" noise coming from the differential case... Now i'm sure there isn't! They also serviced the differential self locking system.

    5) Casa del freno, Modena. They restored and fully serviced brakes calipers, brake pump and changed brake pads too. No.1 in the world Lambo mechanic said they worked well also before, but maybe he did not know brake did not pass the DOT periodical test... Now i'm sure they work as they have to do: 700 euro i was very happy to pay.

    6) Myself. I found the problem that put my car on the rescue truck three times and made me waste 2000 + euro: a fuel tank venting tube badly installed by the Lambo specialist (that was not the N.1 overall in the world rank that mostly restored my car).

    7) Myself again. I found the problem that caused a not perfect idle, some misfiring and many explosions in the muffler when i released throttle pedal. I do not want to tell what the problem was, i just want to tell that was not solved by the Lambo expert (that was not the N.1 overall in the world rank that mostly restored my car) in three attempts. I solved the problem with 1,5 euro: i'm not a genius so it means the problem was very easy to solve...

    ciao
     
  24. ilconservatore

    ilconservatore F1 Veteran

    May 18, 2009
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    Cincinnati Ohio
    Certainly there's an upper limit to labor rates, but wouldn't a mechanic who could meet all 12 other expectations be worth more than the others? :)

    Our local bmw dealer's rates are well over $100 per hour (120 I believe) an there's a lot less liability in a used 3 series than a CT.
     
  25. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    Couldn't agree more. Sort of what I was trying to say.

    -mick
     

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