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Copper Core Wires (Running w/Stumble) GTSi

Discussion in '308/328' started by waymar, Aug 11, 2013.

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  1. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    #1 waymar, Aug 11, 2013
    '82 GTSi - Replaced both caps / rotors (believe or not the old rotor tips were broke off and the car ran fairly well) I also replaced the old stock wires with Accel Super Stock 7mm copper core wires kit 3008 (zero ohms on all wires from cap to extender) Checked the order in the cap 1342 on both sides starting from bottom left side of coil wire input.

    Upon restart the car stumbled and misfired and backfired - I leaned the CIS and it still stumbles and will POP in the exhaust on racing the throttle by hand (have not driven it yet)

    Also noticed the oil gage goes to 85 pressure then drops to '0' and stays there until restart -thinking separate issue??? The oil light goes out 6sec after startup and stays out.

    I disconnected the rear ignition flywheel sensor and the car would not start but starts when hooked up - thinking that sensor is ok -

    Questions:
    1- Are the copper core wires causing the issue, is it ok to run copper core wires and not resistance wires on stock ignition?
    2- The POP would that be spark or fuel?

    Baffled - Wayne
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,586
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    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Aug 11, 2013
    Are you running resistor or non-resistor spark plugs? A complete zero Ohms system can harm the DigiPlex ECUs on your model (if still used), and might be creating lot of EMI/crosstalk foo. Not even sure that a zero ohm wire system + resistor plugs is enough. If any model needs the non-zero impedance of the wound wire spark plug wires -- it's the DigiPlex models (and maybe the DinoPlex models ;)).
     
  3. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
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    Wayne Martin
    #3 waymar, Aug 11, 2013
    Hi Steve - Many thanks for the prompt reply - Running stock plugs - so then I should switch to resistance wires and try again? Rgds Wayne
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,586
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    #4 Steve Magnusson, Aug 11, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
    If you want to run stock (non-resistor) plugs, you should run the stock (~700 Ohm/ft) spiral wound wire AND the stock resistive extender.

    If you want to run either lower resistance wires and/or less-resistive extenders -- you should use a resistor type spark plug IMO. I know that the resistive stock extenders can be troublesome, so if I had a 308i with DigiPlex (and I don't :)), I'd run:

    Spirally-wound, fine-wire spark plug and coil wires (say something in the 400~900 ohms/ft with 700 ohm/ft being the stock target)
    Zero ohm extenders
    Resistor type Spark plugs

    JMO.
     
  5. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
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    #5 waymar, Aug 11, 2013
    This is my next step - Unless something better

    ACCEL 3010, Spark Plug Wires, Super Stock, Spiral Core, 7mm, Yellow, Set
    Graphite supression eliminates RFI/EMI
    3,000 to 7,000 ohms per foot of resistance
     
  6. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

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    #6 waymar, Aug 11, 2013
    Sorry - posted before your reply!

    I must have non stock extenders (0 - ohms) so then following your lead I should seek other then the Accel wires (3000-7000)

    Not sure what alternate wires are out there and the stock wires are pricey but not compared to 2 plexs :)
     
  7. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

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    #7 waymar, Aug 11, 2013
    Pertronix 708180 (7mm) Flame-Thrower Black Universal (500 ohm /ft) - Much better ohm rating/ft - I will try these with resistor plugs -

    Many thanks for the input - on stock digiplex systems -

    Rgds Wayne
     
  8. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Mar 4, 2008
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    Adrian
    #8 alhbln, Aug 11, 2013
    NKG BPR resistor plugs should be fine with copper core wires but i would recommend following Steves advice using spiral wound resistance wires. There is not really a loss of spark energy with the resistor BPR plugs and the spiral wound wires create much less EMI interference.

    Steve, Dinoplex units have no issue driving copper cores wires but you won't be able to enjoy your radio (or anyone else in the near vicinity) ;-)
     
  9. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2012
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    Shreveport, LA
    #9 Saabguy, Aug 11, 2013
    As a data point, Mallory insists that you NOT have solid core wires with their electronic distributors. They say that solid core wire will cause the pickup unit to break down. Damn if they weren't right. Took brand new solid core wires off the E-Type and installed the spiral wound wire from Magnecor and no problems. and yes, I installed Magnecor wires in my 328 as well. They have a good writeup on their site too..

    MAGNECOR Race Wires: WELCOME TO MAGNECOR!

    Lester
     
  10. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
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    #10 waymar, Aug 16, 2013
    Steve - Thank you for your knowledge sharing last week -

    I received the new plug wires today ~ 500 ohm/ft knowing the extenders were o-ohms I used the resistor plugs as you suggested.

    WOW!!! What a difference - she runs like a champ without stumble and pulls strong. Funny thing the oil gauge that went to zero with the copper core wires is now reading correct again!

    So I can confirm that copper core wires play heck with the 2v ecu's (and other things) - thank God the ecu's suffered no damage that I can tell -

    Again - thanks Steve for your support -

    Rgds Wayne
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,586
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #11 Steve Magnusson, Aug 16, 2013
    Glad that you got it sorted Wayne, and thanks for the feedback -- drive on!
     

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