This is not the position I would use in cruising or in traffic ! I would still want to rest my idling hand elsewhere !
Exactly. I don't understand why most paddle boys get so upset for some of us suggesting that Ferrari should have a manual as an option. They won't tick that box anyways, so no need to get upset. I'd say around 8 to 12% of 458s would still be sold with a manual. I think the figure was around 20% for the 430s, my figure comes from the people that simply prefer manuals and the figure will stay around the same for the next few cars. Anyhow, it's beating a dead horse this subject, we've lost.
It is not beating a dead horse ! It is a live horse . Why can't we have both a paddle shift AND a stick to hold onto in the console simultaneously ?!! They are not necessarily mutually exclusive . Past Ferraris did offer this . For instance , the little sticks in the console of 456, 550...... To me it would be more desirable if the sticks are bigger . As I said , it is more of a matter of tradition , aesthetic and touch than function . For the same reason , there are Ferrari badges in the steering wheels and shields on the fenders . They are there to give that classy touch and are still highly regarded in the digital era .
They would have to re-design the classic Ferrari shifter but I think it would be a useful improvement to the current F1 setup. I would also like to suggest an additional horn button activated by pressing the centre hub of the steering wheel, where the airbag is. Most people will like to steer one-handed some of the time, and change gears with their freed hand using a stick on the centre console because it is relaxing. Hanging both arms off 9-and-3 on the steering wheel for a long drive is tiring and a bit boring. We cannot race these cars on public roads so we should adapt them to more casual driving and make them more flexible. Having duplicate F1 gear shift controls on a stick and also an additional horn button using the centre hub of the steering wheel would work very well. You can find the centre horn very fast when your hands are not at 9-and-3 and you can maneuver the car easily in slower traffic and still have the serious F1 controls when you are tracking or on a high speed run under safe conditions. It's the best of both worlds.
There is a technique taught at race and rally schools for those extra tight turns. Up to half a turn you hold the hands at a quarter to three by crossing them. If the turn requires more lock, you bring the hand that corresponds to the turn on top of the steering wheel and use that hand to turn the wheel while the other hand stays still, letting the rim loose. When the hand that steers the wheel reaches the 6 o' clock position, the other hand (still at 3 o'clock) grabs the wheel and continues to rotate the rim, while the hand at 6 lets loose. You can practically apply full lock that way while never leaving both hands off the wheel. Driving casually in a high performance car is something that driving instructors frown upon. Also, a useless lever would only add weight, wiring complexity and take up space.
Could not agree more! I'm sorry guys but there are some really bad arguments being made from the manuals-are-dead camp.. "oh, so you prefer manuals? That must mean that you prefer banging two rocks together over driving the new LaFerrari." I know some of it is just a friendly jab but since I've read stuff like that about 10000 times I'm starting to feel as if some people are dead serious. It's like saying everyone who loves paddle shifters would prefer the 458 replacement to have just one button and when you press it the car would drive automatically to where you want to go. Since that would be new technology and make the car faster, it must be better right?.. If you want to argue that the manual is dead, please make an argument that is remotely relevant to what is being discussed. Even if it's being discussed for the fiftyeleventh time.. Yes, they do. And you must not have heard people's opinions on the new M5...
I don't have any issues with people wanting a manual 458 or any other manual car to be honest. But to "pretend" that Ferrari should make manual cars as well when the market has clearly shown that the vast majority of people don't want it....it would not be financially viable. I know it's more of a GT but bear in mind that as I said before less than 20 manual California were sold around the world since the car was launched
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPAe6w4ypK8&feature=player_embedded]Save the Manuals! - YouTube[/ame]
No question about what the market wants, and if the car companies don't make any money by offering manuals then they will simply stop doing so, as we have seen. But all the complaing from us manual fans is surely understandable, as was the air/water cooled 911 debate. If you take away or change something people love, you will get a debate. Especially on the internet. I just want people to stay on topic and not state that we want the hand crank back when we are comparing how to shift gears when driving a car. It feels a bit like a kindergarten kind of argument..
Actually the stick is not dying. In Europe more than half the cars sold are manuals. High end sports cars and supercars though are abandoning manual transmissions in favour of the faster semi automatics.
It seems to me that more and more cars in Europe have some form of automatic transmission. So while today it might be more than half, I think years ago it was an even higher percentage sold were manual.
Funny but the Euro's think we are old fuddy duddies stuck in the mud over the stick and hung up on tradition over technology. Then again, we do like to put 8 tracks in 70's muscle cars.
Only sissies have cars who's top doesn't leak Only sissies drive cars that actually start in the rain ... Rick
Who is really killing the stick shift? Best way to Save the Manuals is to buy them. Put your money where your mouth is. BTW we have 4 cars. 3 are sticks and then there is this one lousy 458 Spider with a DCT. Nice to have some variety in life. So shoot me. So how many of Stick Shifters actually drive a stick for your daily driver? What about the wife and kids? How many have more than 75% of your cars with a stick shift? How many of you have a wife who will NOT drive an automatic like I do? (If you REALLY loved manuals why would you marry somebody who only drives automatics? Answer: you think sex is more important and I say SHAME ON YOU! And your offspring are likely to drive automatics too! With values like that manuals are doomed and YOU ARE TO BLAME. No one else. You want to see who is killing stick shifts, just look in the mirror my friend. Just look in the mirror.)
I buy sticks when they offer them. I had the ferrari dealer talk to the factory to make me a stick car, float a price. They made a 599 stick a few years before I thought they may have some parts left over. The I asked the dealer to find me a stick. He thinks people who have them are holding them. I wish you could just buy them. Audi had trouble finding me a stick, R8 V10 and they did. My new vette will be stick. Oh well enough already Ferrari says there is no market for them anymore except for a few outliers and they must know.
Yes. I would have put an 8 track in my muscle car but I had a turntable installed instead. My sense of it is the Europeans used to drive stick shift daily and that was seen as very common and associated with the tedium of commuting. When F1 went to automated manuals that was exciting and sexy technology- who wouldn't want that. In the US, almost everyone drives an automatic, so that is the common choice. Stick shift is exotic and only found in sports cars (or trucks). I love to drive stick shift, but it would be 100% out of place in the 458. The car's reflexes are so fast it would throw the balance of the experience off. Good points Phil. I used to dive stick shift daily, but no more. The autoboxes have gotten that good and its nice when I can row my own gears but I'm not even 1/10th as fast as the best DCTs now. Its just a different experience.
Well put sir, well put! Over here kids even nowadays learn to drive in manual cars. Almost all European drivers are proficient in stick shifting (as you call it over there). As a result, manuals are no sacred cow in the Old World. We are over them really, as long as the next step is something really fast and not a slushbox. And no, a VW DSG is not good enough.
Good points. I have five cars, all stick, including a 2011 570SL. I don't think the stick holds the car back at all for me, and I don't believe it would hold back any of the modern day super cars in terms of enjoyment (for me - your mileage may vary). Didn't Lewis Hamilton ordered a one-off of one of the top end Paganis with a stick? I'm not crazy, I understand how competent and quick paddle shifters are these days, and I've driven many of the high end paddle cars on nice twisty roads (and highway), and I've found the paddle shifters and the cars to be superb. But I just happen to have much more fun driving a stick. I don't buy the comparisons to crank starting and leaky tops either: a stick shift enhances the experience for me, and does not make the car inherently more dangerous (drum brakes, I'm looking at you). For me, the stick has many of the qualities of other things I truly love, like a racing bicycle, or a Fender Stratocaster. Also, note that Randy Pobst lapped Laguna in 1:34.4 in a Z06 with a stick, just pipping his time in a McLaren (Motor Trend Top Ten Production Cars around Laguna Seca) - but... tires likely played a bit of a role there. However, it seems even at the level, a stick was just fine in a car of that caliber. Oh, and my wife also drives a stick as her daily driver, a Mini Cooper S. I lament the lack of choice, not that other people would choose a paddle setup.
Yes. IIRC, it's called the Zonda 760LH (for Lewis Hamilton). It's one of the many (relatively) special edition Zondas.
