Ketel kindly asked this not turn into another debate, name calling, argument, pissing match, etcetera. So out of respect for ketel let's adhere to his wishes.
Guys? What part of "this thread is SOLELY for those to contribute input on a GCK install" is unclear to you? And by "you" I'm primarily referring to t308, Dave rocks and johnk. Gee. Zus. Again, this is a free country and all but COME ON. Go start your own thread and you can beat up on GCK, Dave H, me, whatever but if you are not contributing USEFUL information for those who are actively or likely to be installing the GCK, zip it. That is all. ketel
Don't just single those guys out, be fair about it. I was talking about everyone, no need for name calling.
Not name calling or taking sides just trying to keep this thread from devolving again into the Pros and Cons factions of the GCK install. Those who have experience with this install and can help those undergoing the process or looking to do so are welcome to opine and share their experiences. That helps everyone. Unfortunately, those who are bashing the GCK are often those who have not done it. Not helpful. And not the purpose of this thread. ketel
Ketel, we all due respect I would think you would want some of the great info posted and open your arms to receive it. The learning process of cars or any other hobby requires an open mind. Almost every thread on every forum goes off topic is some form. It's a public forum and others will gain information from what's been posted in this thread and others. If you want a private discusstion, perhaps just obtain the emails of those you wish to be of help to you in a selective way. My Best, Dave.
Going off topic is one thing. A wholesale hijacking for 45 pages is quite another. Which is why the moderators (rightfully) shut the other thread down and I started another. You were not modest in sharing your views on the other thread. I would hope that you have now exhausted those views. If you have NEW views having to do with the INSTALLATION of this kit to HELP others doing it, terrific. If you still want to debate Gold vs Tin and all that, start a thread. Otherwise, please let others have this one for the purpose intended. ketel
So....another setback of sorts: As you will remember, I performed a hard reset of my 355 and ECU last weekend and followed the instructions religiously. I then attempted to drive cycle the vehicle, putting some 60 miles on it while adhering strictly to the drive cycle procedure -- never exceed 2500, maintain speed, don't hard accelerate or decelerate, etc etc etc. At the end of that 60 mile drive, no CELs appeared. No SD lights either. Woo hoo. And the vehicle drove well save for a slightly rough idle. I was cautiously optimistic that the 355 would finally be ready and actually pass CAL smog test. So, today I planned to perform a readiness test on my Innova OBD2 reader to assess whether the 355 was test-ready. Bear in mind I had NOT driven the vehicle since last weekend's 60-mile journey and no CELs appeared during or at the end of that trip. If the OBD2 reader showed a readiness GREEN reading, I planned to drive straight to the smog center and get the procedure done. If I got a YELLOW reading indicating that all the monitors had not run their course and that the vehicle was "pending" being ready for a test, I'd drive the vehicle some more, adhering again to the strict drive cycle procedure, and wait until all lights were GREEN. Here, instead, is what happened: I plugged in the OBD2 reader as usual. I expected it to show nothing but a YELLOW or GREEN readiness indicator. Instead, it showed 10 fault codes. WTF? The CEL light was not even on and had not come on the last time the vehicle was driven. Huh? So, I decided to try a short drive. My fuel reading was lower than I'd read to keep it -- it was 1/4 tank and I've read that it really should be 1/2 - 3/4 full for the Evap -- so I figured I'd just drive it a few blocks to the fuel station, fill it up, and take it back. Firing her up was fine. No CELs. No SD lights. Unfortunately, this being Friday before Labor Day wknd and the Bay Bridge being closed, the traffic was horrendous. I sat in stop and go for 30 mins. For the first 20 mins, no incidents. No CELs, no SD lights. Then, right before I hit the fuel station, BAM, the CEL came on. *&^%#$@$#!!!! So, now I need help investigating a few things. I have questions. Why did my OBD2 reader show faults before I drove the vehicle while no CELs had yet appeared in the vehicle? Does the OBD2 reader need to clear its own fault memory as does the ECU? Is there some mythic procedure I forgot to follow with the OBD2 reader? Crimey. Also, how was it that 10 faults showed up at all? Were these the same 10 from before that the reader had not cleared? Or...were these still stored in the ECU although I did everything right in clearing those faults? ketel
careful on the personal attacks. critique the message, not the sender with shallow put downs, that is 12 or 13 years old.
Sorry to hear this. Perhaps it might be a good idea to focus on the system showing up on the codes or as some had suggested, hook it up to an sd2.
Codes showed up on your OBD2 reader before CEL because the OBD2 system will show pending codes. If the computer sees a fault, it sets a pending code. If then waits for "confirmation" and when the same fault occurs again, it trips the CEL. Sorry the CEL reoccured. Look for a common origin for your Codes and work from there. Its unlikely that there are truly 10 faults occurring all at once.
Did you ever test your o2 sensors? (Pretty important because this is the feedback your engine is looking for to adjust itself) If you have not, then please explain how you spent $1500 on connectors and not $100 on o2 sensors? (Especially if your computer is saying that this is the problem) I really want you to solve your problem, but you have to understand that this is a computer. It functions by logic. If it does not "see" the reading it wants, then you get a CEL. These things are like your eyes to the car. So, if you do replace your o2 sensors...please reset your ecu again....or you will still get the CEL because it has already tried to adapt to your flawed environment.
It's ok...you may have just been having a bad day. I'm really sorry if I was trying to save the group a lot of money and teach them about the connections in their cars. In fact, with the money you could save, you could feed a homeless family for several months and still fix your car. (And get a tax credit). Again...my apologies to you
How does one have a close working relationship with Bosch? Do you have any idea what volume you would need? On a side note, Why would you flame me.....then say you are not 100% sure? Please call Bosch yourself before you try to pass judgement on me. I at least called AMP asking about all of these connections, and have only reported to this group what they passed to me. They even passed along the vendors (which I have shared with all of you) for these parts. Please understand that it is very frustrating for me to see the group so excited about saving money on aBS computers, then turn their nose up on the connector info. However, I must say that it is only a few here that say this, and I have to believe that future readers that are UNBIASED will benefit. Ferrari does not manufacture any of the electrical systems in these cars...BOSCH does. Plain and simple. Ketel....in the simplest of terms, you are not having a single problem with a Ferrari part on your car....it is a problem in the Bosch intellectual space. You problem will ultimately be found to be a bosch part....whether it be a JPT connector, o2 sensor, MAF sensor, or CTS...all Bosch parts that should not carry the F tax. Like it or not, I have provided you a cheaper alternative to accessing parts that it looks like you still may need. The valve guides and headers...well that's gonna have an F tax.
I believe his point is related to Dave's ability to have Bosch produce a special item at a low volume. Anything is possible but it would seem unlikely.
Ketel, Also just checking to see if your OBD 2 port was upgraded. Honestly, I have no idea if this could/should make a difference on clearing your codes or reading codes properly, but just wanted to ask if this was already done on your car. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ketel, First, sorry to hear you are still getting CELs. Sincerely. However, pending codes are set when the ECU senses and error. Generally, any time the ECU sees an error it first sets a pending code (to account for erroneous readings). Some ECUs will also turn on the CEL for a pending code. If the error does not reappear in a specific amount of time, the ECU erases the pending code and turns off the CEL (if it was on). If the error reoccurs within the specified time period the ECU changes status from pending to an actually code and the CEL will come on (if off) and remain on until the problem is resolved. It seems you have some seriously unresolved issues with your car. You need to forget the GCK and start resolving them with proper diagnosis. For example, test the O2 sensor heaters. If they are bad it would not be unexpected to see the high/low voltage errors as well. You could have a short in the wiring harness. Visually check it to see if it touched the exhaust and was melted anywhere. get it hooked up the an SD2 or Leonardo diagnostic tool. If at all possible, swap the ECU for another one and see if the codes still reappear. It's obvious that there isn't magic gold kit. You need to spend some money where it counts, in a good shop with the proper tool. [Hijack: non GCK issue] Second, this O2 thing. I don't get the idea that DH can have special O2 sensors made. Thing is, the O2 sensor speced for the car has a give characteristic in terms of its output variation with operation conditions. What ever it is, it would be the input used when the mapping of the ECU was done for the 355. The ECU is just a computer and like every computer it is just running a program. So change the characteristics of the O2 sensor and you change to way the engine runs. If a custom O2 sensor is designed it either has the same characteristics as the original, or the ECU needs to be remapped. [End hijack] Also, with regard to posting of the parts sources, I think they are useful and in line with the thread topic. Recall that in the old thread one of the issues was that Ketel destroyed one of the connector housing while trying to extract the pins. I think it more than relevant to know that there are many over the counter sources for replacement connector housing, boots, and yes, pins, in what ever color you like.
I'm pretty sure that if it is not updated the reader will report "no connection to system" or the like. Also, Ketel might want to try a different reader.
Ketel, The Gold connector kit allows you to know that your wiring is the best it can be for the longest time proven so far in the marketplace so that 1) your car will run the best it can 2) you get true feedback to what is going on in your car In one of my earlier posts I said I was surprised at no codes and I am not surprised they are back. I hope to assume that you correctly installed the GCK. We emailed earlier and with all those connections done of 3 weeks and a bunch in the ECU's themselves the fear is always in the back of the mind if one makes an error in pin placement or if all of our crimps are top shelf. At this time we can only assume you have worked to perfection and you have taken the wiring out of the equation as an error source. Post up the 10 codes and lets solve them. I personally use 2 OBD2 testers. I don't think that is necessary but some say the one reader may work on a car better than another reader. I have not found that to be true but there is that data point that many believe. ODB2 reader "features" may be more of an issue for you. You need a reader that will show you a pending code, hard code and display each readiness monitor before you can begin to do any meaningful work. I have a generic reader and then a much nicer $100 buck KIWI OBD2 reader that bluetooths with my smartphone. It can read additional real-time data like STFT LTFT RPM etc. to provide more info. Also remember that you need 3/5 monitors to be ready not all of the monitors set to be cali legal. But it is nice to get them all. Also remember that OBD2 protocol has changed many times and the 355 1st gen OBD2 was the early version. I am not sure if this protocol is an issue or just specific models are an issue but you can google ODB2 monitor issues and nissan for example and see where a specific model in a line has issues with monitor resets, so there where growing pains in OBD2 to get to the protocol we are at today. But that history aside we have to work with what you got.
Come on FBB. That's just trying to make the case for the GCK. It isn't helping ketel or others who may wish, or not wish, to install the kit. You are simply making the case for starting by assuming the problems are related to connectors, and it isn't worth wasting time finding out which connectors. But it doesn't rule out internal shorts in the harness, and it doesn't rule out doing the right diagnosis in the first place. It was stated in the first thread, by me, that this is a brute force approach that won't necessarily fix anything. I was correct then and am now. All that has happened is the ketel has spend mucho dolares and mucho tiempo to accomplish nothing. [sarcasm alert] Can't wait till I go to my doctor and he tells, "Now that I installed a pace maker we can be sure you will survive your hernia operation." Your opening statement is exactly what I would expect. I though it before and may have posted it: Customer: My car is throwing code. Tech*: You need to install the GCK. Those codes are all ghosts. No point in wasting time or money diagnosing them. Customer: OK, how much for the kit and install? Tech*: $XXXX for the kit and another $XXXX for the install. Customer: We installed the GCK and I still have the codes! Tech*: Well now we can be sure the connections aren't the problem and the codes are real! (Tech* = fill in the name of your favorite tech.) Sorry if this offends anyone, but this is the scenario that FBB is saying and the same thing DH was saying in the first thread, Ghost, ghost, ghosts. Time to get real. There is no super natural and ghost don't exist! Codes are thrown because something is amiss. It may be wires, connectors, sensors, a cat ECU or even the main ECU. The only way to find out what is it is to do a proper diagnoses. I said that 50 pages ago it seems. Proper diagnoses include checking the connections wires and sensors. It is the only thing that will help ketel. In fact, if you install new connectors GCK or otherwise, and it does solve your problem, you got lucking. In fact, it's not unlike the way we initially set off to get Bin Laden. Remember those bombs we dropped in Afghanistan that were suppose to kill everyone in those caves? That a GCK. Remember how we finally got him? Good intel leading use directly to him where we took him out with one shot. That's good diagnosis leading to and resolving the problem
