"OFFICIAL" MASERATI BI-TURBO ERA ENTHUSIAST THREAD

Why exactly is that?

 

Because if you leave the choke on the cats will burn up and set the car on fire. This did happen to QPIII's and Biturbos back at that time. In 86 they went to an automatic choke and 87 they went to FI.

 

Most likely that was the mechanical sound.

 

Ah there's the rub. Good luck with that. The ones fully sorted usually aren't up for sale so you're likely facing a cam belt, tensioner bearing & bushing and possibly a valve adjustment.
The valve adjustment is no fun and time consuming but if your patient it's not rocket science. If those have been done and it hasn't sat thereby requiring new head gaskets then you're probably going to be OK. So get the service records and drive it first.

One issue that sent a lot of them to an early death was the free 1,000 mile head re-torque. The cam box has to be split which is the same amount of work as if you're doing a valve adjustment but it was FREE! Once that has been done they pretty much stay untouched and only the cambelt & tensioner stuff require servicing. The trouble is that so many never brought them back for that free re-torque. You can guess the rest. Any time you do a head gasket that has to be done.

BTW, the automatic on 89 * up is a ZF four speed and it's properly tuned for the car. It's pretty nice. The earlier automatics were a mistake. You see a lot of 86 automatic spyders for sale. The 87 is a very nice car as it's FI but still with an air pump which you can ditch. It has the original style seats which I think are the best. No Alcantara in them so they hold up well.

 

Bob, I'm sorry for offending you. That was certainly not my intention. I didn't take *either* of these threads seriously from the get go (see my first post in each). Sometimes poking fun crosses a line with some, especially given our emotional investment in our cars (they're not just cars, right?), and I should have been more sensitive to that. I love Maserati owners because they are very friendly, without (much) ego, and generally get along quite well. I don't want that to change here on the forum, so please accept my apology.

I have no personal experience with these cars, but I have heard some good stories from owners who loved them so I know that there is something special there. Certainly they had their share of problems, which hurt the brand image and kept many people away for years (including me), but that seems mostly behind us now. The company has turned a corner and had produced some outstanding high-quality cars that have won back the hearts of many and attracted a good following, growing larger every day. I don't think anyone truly begrudges the Biturbo but rather they begrudge the under-engineering of that era of Maserati did so much damage to the brand image. No doubt Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Jaguar and Aston Martin all had their ups and downs through the 70s and 80s, not just Maserati.

Perhaps if the right Biturbo comes along, I'll follow Ivan's lead and give one a try. The owners I have spoken with swear by them.

 

Meaning I should avoid using the choke at all, or if necessary, make sure I turn it off when the engine warms up?

I used mine the first year after I got the car when starting in cold (-10C - 10C) weather, but someone told me I really didn't need to, and I haven't used it since. The car pretty much always starts on the very first try (aside from battery problems, starter motor problems, etc).

 

Well it was just your misfortune to step into an ongoing rant of sorts being perpetrated by at least two people on here so how were you to know. I think at least one of the thread titles are a huge mistake. Maybe both because a lot of people had very bad experiences with these cars here and are understandably still upset but never bothered to figure out why this occurred and how to remedy the situation other than dump the car, take the loss and then dump on the car thereafter.

Some of us moved beyond that. There are similar stories for other Italian cars that have moved on but somehow the Biturbo always gets trashed.

Just be very careful about buying a used one over here. Frankly, most are beyond bothering with.

They are fun, quick and exotic little cars but they ain't built like BMWs.

 

Get a nice '89 model year Maserati, and don't be cheap and get a really low-priced one, as it will need work. Go ahead and pay ~$15K for a real nice one with service records, and you will be a convert. Buy a cheap worn out or unserviced car, and you will hate it (btw, this applies to any kind of car!). I have three 1989 models I have bought in the past two years because they are so undervalued. And they are great running and fun cars, with ordinary-for-the-period maintenance and service issues. And I have a '68 Ghibli, and a later-model 4200, so I have the ability to make great relative comparisons, and I say the '89s are worthy of the trident just like the others.

 

I totally agree with your statement about getting a very nice one. Pay now or pay latter ... I've learn the hard way that it is better to pay more up front and get a good car. I have no desire to start by Biturbo experience with having to replace the timing belt, a valve adjustment, etc.

Now all I need is for someone to point me to a really nice 89. I guess I should also consider a 87.

Ivan

 

I'd be interested to learn from owners first hand about the cars particular ride & handling? so many compare them to BMW E30 of the same period, but I never put much trust in auto magazine remarks, so many are repeating others often biased remarks, Clarkson is bad for such regurgitations

Was the Bi-turbo it's own bespoke platform, or was is a shared platform with some other vehicle(s), as was (and is) fairly common practise?

 

Well, '89 and later is best. '87 had fuel injection which is a huge improvement, but not until '89 did these other improvements come: the less stressed 2.8 liter engine replacing the 2.5 liter; better 'Ranger' differential; better brakes, better front suspension, better and larger 5 lug 15" wheels and tires, better seats, better external mirrors, ....

 

Well, there is no substitute for driving one..... But using the BMW as a baseline, it feels similar in normal handling and braking, but lighter. But a lot different when the boost comes on and off in hard driving. Then it is more like a 930 or Lotus Turbo Esprit, and you have to drive them with that kind of respect driving hard around curves because of the turbo and short wheel base....

 

Would someone who is knowledgeable about the BiTurbo era cars please either post a link to, or post directly to this thread: some information regarding the models, years, drive trains, other significant data? Just a general overview of the whole series of cars.

 

Here is a completely ignorant question: did the Chrysler TC use the BiTurbo engine?

For example: http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/4026361781.html

Chysler TC by Maserati - $9000 (Hague, New York), 1989 200 hp, 5 sp ...

 

nope, they were completely different cars, the TC by Chrysler was a worked over FWD LeBaron convertible, many had the standard Chrysler V6 engine & trans, the few 24 valve I4 head engines were still basically a Chrysler 2.2L I4 engine & trans

 

There's noting less stressed about the 2.8L engine. The 2.5L is just fine. The FI is the big change and while it's OK it's not the greatest system either. You need to keep after the sensor connections and the idle air control valve needs some futzing with once a while but other than that it's OK. Later they went to the dual identical computers (one per bank) for the 4 valve engines. BTW it's the identical ECU as used by the F40.

I have both a carb version and their latest and last FI version in my GOC. That one's a 2.0L and in stock form it's 330HP but it's easily boosted to 380. That's pretty damn impressive from only 2 liters ...

But I actually prefer the the response of the 2.5L Carb version. Mine is very nicely tuned and I just got back from driving it again today and that little car just scoots so nicely by three cars at a time on country roads that it feels like the hand of god is pushing you along. It doesn't make as much horsepower but about 280 and that's not bad. But don't expect that sort of performance from any carb versions out there without doing some work. No internal engine work required just good carb setup, boost and intercooling. The carb cars will run just fine once that dreaded emissions system and cats are removed.

The interior quality took a really big jump in 89. The brakes are better and worse at the same time. Floating calipers but the disks got ventilated which helps. The original brakes on the 87 and earlier are straight ATE stuff off a BMW. This basically a copy of a 320I in a lot of ways. Those are fixed calipers with opposed 4 pistons. People have upgraded them to ventilated rotors but that's bit of work.

I think the 87 spyder is pretty nice and I prefer those seats but the steering and suspension was improved a bit with the 89 and later cars.

They all have fuse box issues. So plan on getting yours repaired/upgraded. There's an additional external AC/ventilation modification to help with this too. A good idea.

Also put the Delco alternator in in place of the Marelli. A rebuilt one is like $40 at a lot of auto stores like Autozone.

The GhiblII versions were a big improvement especially the later ones like the Ghibli Cup. Those are sought after but still illegal in the USA. There was one in Canada and it may still be there. It showed up at Pocono twice.

 

Enrico's website is a terrific place for information Carmine.

If you want technical help on the USA models then Biturbozentrum is your spot. The European ones are discussed there as well. We have members from all over the world. Even a McLaren engineer has one and loves it. More HP per liter than McLaren's current street engine!

 

Wow, and I loved the seats in my old '85.

Lots of things I loved about the car....

Quick

Good trunk for a quick car

Comfy seats

"good enough" mileage

Sounded splendid

Nobody else in my town in Iowa at the time, or since, had one.

I really didn't have fuse issues, mine were mostly started related.

If the drift world had ever gotten wind of what this car did in stock form........

 

Thanks for initiating this thread. The biturbo deserves its place in the history books, for reasons already mentioned here. In Europe the factory continued selling them until 1998 (the qpIV and 3200Gt actually until 2001) and they also continued improving them. Late models are great reliable cars if maintained well (just like the BMWs or Porsches of the same era). Biturbo specialists abound here and therefore owning a good one is relatively simple. A good late model biturbo spyder or GhibliII yields 15000 euros, other biturbo's 5k less - for the tired ones a lot less. I owned a 424v and a qpIV evoluzione and I now have a 1993 spyder, next to my qpIII and a couple of other cars from the 80ies. Huge fun. Single minded or half-blind folks might wish to compare them with 80ies Talbots (Solara or Tagora) but the reality is that they are elegant understated cars that continued that part of Maserati's reputation.
Apart from the negative comments over here and in other forums I have always regretted the fact that the factory itself has shown inappropriate embarrassment with respect to the biturbos. That's a shame by itself.
I look forward to own a GhibliII but I might do time sharing with a friend who is restoring one. He will drive my spyder when I drive his Ghibli.

Here's my spyder on the race track of Assen in The Netherlands. It did keep up with the more recent Masers, partly due to its low centre of gravity.
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I had an 84 (neglected...and dropped off at my front door in about 6 boxes). Definitely not the nightmare some people made it out to be, but not a financially great idea either. If you have a daily driver, and want the italian ownership experience cheap...a biturbo is a great car. If you are looking for something to get you to work every day, then stay away. I think I will wind up with another (probably 87si) before the end of my days.

 

I don't see why a 1980s biturbo (20+ years old) should meet requirements for a current day daily driver.

 

great thread.
actually i have to say that i could post in both, the lovers and the haters section.
Sold my 84 Biturbo S last friday and i have to say that i had a lot of fun with it.
A true sports car and much more sporty than the GTs in my garage.
Wrote a little article about a trip to Portugal a few years back (only german, sorry)
http://biturboclub.de/doc/ReiseSantiago.pdf

Experienced a lot of technical surprises with it, especially towards the end of my ownership
but always enjoyed driving it nevertheless.
The ones well maintained are definitely worth the investment but the ones fiddled with can as well be burned as recommended by others
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Thanks for the link to biturboclub.de. You might as well check out http://www.maseratichat.nl