Good detailer versus an excellent one

Here is some info on detailing, pricing, methods used and the 22ple.

Esoteric Auto Detail in Columbus, Ohio ? Detailing, Training, and Product Sales.

 

Or you can do it yourself and feel better with a job well done. Yes practice on the wife's Mercedes

It is true that a very good detailer will almost always do a better job than you can, assuming you have one local. I do not, so I had to do it myself. Here is a short un-inspirational video to help you along...

*I have 22ple, just have not used it yet. Will likely do a poor job at a how to video when I get around to it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzygQQPuaeY]Ferrari F430 Polish and Wax - Detailing my Ferrari - Paint Correction - YouTube[/ame]

 

well i can tell you that i have had $100 details and $1000 details and to me i can tell you that when i detailed my S63 it cost me around $1000. it took two days and i think it was a total waste of money. this guy brought out a buffer with two small spinning wheels and although it looked cool i don't see the difference.

now did the car come out beautiful ? sure it looked good. but what i got for $1000 doesn't justify the price to me... here is what i got extra... masking off the windows and trimming covering the rims and tires and using a detail brush afterwards to remove leftover wax that got into some small hard to reach places.

the wax wasn't "exclusive" or even expensive, if i remember correctly i think it was 3m or some crap like that... i asked the detailer why he wasn't using a more expensive or better product for $1000 he said that it was the best. lol i know it wasn't the best but i know that every one tends to like their own products and has their own opinion of what's the best so i let him do his thing..... now keep in mind that this detailer was extremely highly recommended by all the Mercedes and Porsche guys swearing by how excellent his work was. ahhhh yeah i don't think so...

my car was only 2 months old at the time and really didn't need any paint correction
( remove swirls and or scratches from the paints surface ) but i wanted to see what a $1000 detail was and im telling you now please don't waste your money because its not really worth it.

now i understand that my car didn't have any swirls or scratches and that's where some people might argue the fact that these guys that do this expensive work know how to remove swirls and scratches but i know that i have been getting my cars detailed for a long time and i can tall you it's not about the money it's about the detailer... I've gotten details done for $80-100 and the paint came out looking like glass.

you want a detailer that can accommodate your needs... if you have swirls and scratches you want someone who knows what they are doing... please don't go on craigslist to find a detailer because if something happens to your car then your screwed and will not get reimbursed for the damages. i would say to go out to a reputable detailing company and have them do a test spot on your car to see if they have the knowledge of doing the job, also keep in mind if you do, always look at the car in direct sunlight not in the shade or even inside with a lot of lights because you will never see the true results of the job..


sorry for the long post but u asked and that's what i had to say. lol hope i brought some insight. Donny

 

nice video trent

 

For me a good detailer is invaluable to a nice car. I'm lucky to have a good friend who does fantastic work, and if you can't tell the difference when you get your car back your detailer is probably crap. Mine normally does a "half and half" on a flat surface to demonstrate before and after, where you clearly can see the vast difference a proper detailing can do. Also, a proper detailing leaves the car protected so that a quick hose down will keep the car impeccable for a good while.

Also keep in mind that most paint damages comes from poor cleaning - i.e. dragging a used sponge over a dirty car. Having a pro help you out with your pride and joy keeps her pristine for a long, long time.

 

I think the difference between a good detailer and a great one is when it comes to paint corrections. If your car is in great shape cosmetically, and you use the correct techiniques and tools and products, you should pretty much keep it that way. But when you have a car that's a mess, swirl marks, scratches, etc., that's when the experience comes out. Even some new cars from the factory need corrections. I doubt anyone here who's not trained in detailing would want to wet sand their entire car, much less undertake a true paint correction. Also even if the cars in great shape, true master detailers, the likes of Eddie Fiuza and Todd Cooperider take it to another level.

 

I'm still not a fan of this "paint correction" thing, which essentially removing a layer of material.

 

Pro Signature Glass Coat. Sponsor Here, Esoteric Auto Detail sells it. Great stuff.

VX1 Signature Glass Coat 30ml

 

Well, I usually detail my own cars but as I get older I'm not that into spending a couple of days waxing and polishing. Recently I purchased a 360 and it looked terrible. The seats were dirty, the carpets were worse. The body didn't feel like it was waxed in years! The engine wasn't that dirty but the red covers were pink. A few scratches here and there. Mind you I'm glad it looked that way because after we negotiated a bit I had a great car for a lot less money. If I was selling it I would have made that car look like brand new! Anyway, since I was new to Ferrari ownership I checked around and decided to go to Continental in Hinsdale. WOW! I spent $250 (on sale normally $300) - a full day at the spa!. That was the best money I ever spent and my 360 looks like it just came out of the showroom. No dirt - anywhere! Scratches gone! pink covers - red! And the reddest and feel-good body ever! Take a looksy.
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Sometimes there's no other way to make the paint look better, like I'm sure even some detailers will tell you that a respray is in order.

 

Disclaimer, I have never used a detailer with the exception of a local shop on one of my wife's cars (daily driver). It came out looking good but it was not bad to begin with.

I perform my own detailing work. There is skill involved and I get better at it every year and own more tools too.

If the car is in good condition, it is pretty easy. If it is not, things are more interesting. Most reputable detailers will do a good job.

What sets good ones apart is their attention to the differences in addressing your specific paint.

The Nero on my 1979 is very different to work than the newer paints on our 2011s. Paint on fiberglass or other non-ferrous metals polishes differently than steel. Knowledge and attention to these things will make the difference.

At the end of the day, it is all about taking off just enough paint to make a smooth finish. How that is done varies on each paint.

 

+1 Here are some pictures of Eddy Fiuza's work done on my car while at Tim Stanford's shop last week. This is an example of a great detailer working with orginal paint
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You're in great hands, Eddie & Tim.

 

It removes an extremely small amount. I have a black 355 and it was swirled to no end. See http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/408492-my-exterior-adventure.html

The only way to address this was paint correction or repaint (which would have been very foolish and expensive).

 

Thanks for the info. I've seen their specials on their website and it almost sounded too good to be true. I'm glad you can attest for their workmanship.

Joe

 

its all subjective...what looks good to some, looks ok to others

one the topic of waxes being high end or not...I know of a company that uses the same wax with different scents and colors and he charges 50 for one and about 1000 for the other...SAME STUFF. does it across the line, yet people rant and rave about this or that wax.

paint correction is removing a thin layer of clear (has to be removed as you dont move paint from one area to the next) and that is the only way to have a purely reflective mirror like shine on the car. Sure you can fill in the defects, but two washes later and its all back because the oils in the wax have been removed. holograms and hazy paint are a result of improper polishing technique.

if you had a 1000 dollar detail and cant tell a difference, something is wrong, or you should never have opted for that service in the first place. if your car is already in showroom condition, a simple waxing would suffice, and you would probably be just as happy. Bring in a car that is faded, scratched, swirled up...thats where the 1000 detail comes into play. Poor selling and business ethics on the detailers end, poor consumers decision on purchase. I just did a car that didnt look like it needed much until I put my lights on it...I just had to do a two step correction and 22ple coating on it and it was a night and day difference - but the car didnt "seem" to need much. The bill was 4 digits because of the time and the coating application. So make sure you are comparing apples to apples, and making smart choices. Its your money (no, a $100 detail is not the same as a $1000+ detail, there is a time and a place for both)

 

The only details that cost 4 digits are ones that involve coatings, typically paint correction is a usual before the coating process as the coating locks in the paint. Many argue what waxes look the best, but to be honest, the wax makes little to no difference in the way the paint shines. The polishing and perfection of a flat clear coat surface is what makes the color shine as there are no edges for light to refract off of.

An expensive wax vs. a cheap wax is often the percentage of pure carnauba and how much effort a company put into R&D and marketing for the wax. There are, however, several other lessor factors that influence the price of a wax such as: ease of use (easy on easy off), durability, smell? For a DIYer, I believe the smell could be marginally more important due to the fact that you actually smell the product you are putting on your car. It adds to the whole experience.

Back to the topic. $1000 details usually involve coatings, which is the latest technology in automotive protection and care. Most coatings last around 2 years, depending on the level of maintenance and the number of layers you apply. Coatings require a much higher skill and attention to detail than waxing or sealing. They are hard to see and are only removable by abrasives.

If a detail job is too cheap, the quality will be cheap and the materials will be cheap. Although, on a new car with very little defects, this might not be such a bad option. The reason why some detail jobs cost so much is because it really requires a higher level of attention and a knowledge. For most exotic cars, panels range from a variety of materials, metals, carbon fiber, plastic, poly, etc. I guarantee you a cheap detailer will not know the difference between these and will not know the proper ways to handle each type of material. Each material reacts differently to polishes, pads and heat. An expensive detailer will also be equipped with proper equipment to ensure the least amount of clear coat to remove to perform the same job using paint thickness gauges and even paint microscopes.

If you are being charged $1000, and only getting a wax put on after a correction, hopefully it is some Swissvax or some sort of boutique wax that is both high in carnauba content and durability.

As far as dealership details, detailers get paid by the volume of cars they put out. The more cars they do, the more they get paid, sacrificing quality, attention to detail and most importantly doing a poor job at preparing your vehicle's surface for the protective coating
that will be applied. They also do a poor job at applying the coating properly which in return
cuts the life of the coating by 60-90%. Leaving you with an average to adequate detail at
best and a coating that will not last nor protect your vehicle.

Hope this information helps you out!

 

Lots of good answers here! What about before the detailer even touches your car?:

- Clean & neat appearance of the detailer and his shop (or van/truck). If they can't take care of themselves or their own property, don't hold any high hopes about your car.

- Insured? It's a detailer's way of protecting themselves and YOU. Insurance also lends another layer of credibility to a detailer -just as important as his body of work. Call detailers on Craigslist and ask if they're insured: if you don't like getting hanged up on, you're about to have a really bad day.

- Could they explain to you, in normal people terms, what will be done to your car? If they can't even articulate the steps they will be taking and why, once again, don't hold any high hopes.

- Make your expectations known. An good detailer will usually meet them - an excellent detailer will exceed them every time.

- Price isn't always an indicator of quality, but usually is: I easily charge more than anybody in my area, BUT, I've produced show winning cars. If somebody is charging you in upwards of $400-$500 for a standard detail they better have a damn good reputation and references to back themselves up. The leather better feel like it was just peeled from the cow and the finish better be able to double as a shaving mirror.

 

This channel on youtube has some pretty good videos on the different processes.

AMMO NYC - YouTube

I think the best way to judge the work done is by how long it actually lasts. There isn't much point in it looking shiny for a day or two and then it has no durability. I started using claybars as well as wax on my car and they seem to help protect the paint for about a month and a half.

 

Proven track record over many years is a start, pictures can be deceiving so doing your homework is key to avoiding expectations not met.

 

A skilled detailer will not be cheap. Detailing is just like any other trade in that there is a mixture of time/money, skill, eye and patience that goes into the formula that is the cost of the service. That is where your higher cost comes from. Cheaper services mean that you're taking away one or more of those aspects. There is the off chance that you're just paying for marketing but that is where the next difference in quality lies.

Education
A well rounded craftsman will take the time to educate their client. Here is the truth. It is so easy for a slick talking salesman/detailer to scare or force your hand in spending more on whatever service he is pushing when you have an emotional possession like a fine automobile. A quality detailer will take the time to find out what services you will truly find long lasting value in and what services are not of value to you. Part of that means he will educate you on processes, products and services available. This does not mean he scares you into blindly buying in. It means he will work to discover what an otherwise uneducated car enthusiast really wants. He needs to educate himself about your desire/needs/wants as much as he needs to educate you as to your options. This same quality detailer will ensure that he does the ethically correct thing in not pushing anything on you. Once he educates you, it's you that makes the decision as to what steps you want. After all, you should no longer be completely ignorant about the service if he did a good job educating you.

Service
The quality detailer will provide amazing service. No two people require the exact same service across the board but there are some things that are universal such as promptness(read this as a sign of respect for your time), good communication in regards to services and prices, ability to follow through on agreements, standing behind his services and giving you the time you need in whatever respect.

End result
All other things aside, this area is what means the most to most folks. The quality guy will give you the results you discussed. It's very easy to make paint shiny. What carries far more weight is the ability to get the results and not generate new damage. The cheaper guys tend to cut out the fine details because time=money and he is "not charging enough for that". The USA has become a nation of people who have a throw-away attitude. They want the cheapest and the fastest. This has come to mean places like Mr Clean Carwash is jammed up busy while screwing up paint and parts because so few are interested in paying for quality. I've seen way too many people complain about the volume shops, yet still go back.

I happen to be one of those very expensive guys and I am proud of it. I take pride in the fact my clients are probably the pickiest folks around. I can identify with their sentiment. I love spending 40+ hours on a car. I love that my clients come away knowing more about true detailing and cosmetic car care than 99% of the guys working in those volume shops for years. They come away empowered and with a car that is truly where it belongs.

To wrap it up, there is a market for all types of detailers out there. Paying top dollar is not for everyone. I do not try to get every client that calls as some of them describe situations where I am not a good fit. Others describe me before they dedicate to an appointment. It's very easy to tell who is who during a phone conversation about a fine automobile. If you do not value the details and the long lasting results that should frankly be a given with more expensive guys, don't sweat it. But there is a larger sector of people who are tired of not finding the right detailer than you'd believe.

For the record, I know there are guys who charge a lot and do not take good care of their clients. They focus more on the bottom line than what the client really needs to be happy. With that said, just because someone charges a lot it does not mean they are quality. You must be able to read between the lines to find out if the guy you're talking to is the real deal or not.

 

Btw, Bob is the real deal.

 

A skilled detailer will not be cheap. Detailing is just like any other trade in that there is a mixture of time/money, skill, eye and patience that goes into the formula that is the cost of the service. That is where your higher cost comes from. Cheaper services mean that you're taking away or more of those aspects. There is the off chance that you're just paying for marketing but that is where the next difference in quality lies.

Education
A well rounded craftsman will take the time to educate their client. Here is the truth. It is so easy for a slick talking salesman/detailer to scare or force your hand in spending more on whatever service he is pushing when you have an emotional possession like a fine automobile. A quality detailer will take the time to find out what services you will truly find long lasting value in and what services are not of value to you. Part of that means he will educate you on processes, products and services available. This does not mean he scares you into blindly buying in. It means he will work to discover what an otherwise uneducated car enthusiast really wants. He needs to educate himself about your desire/needs/wants as much as he needs to educate you as to your options. This same quality detailer will ensure that he does the ethically correct thing in not pushing anything on you. Once he educates you, it's you that makes the decision as to what steps you want. After all, you should no longer be completely ignorant about the service if he did a good job educating you.

Service
The quality detailer will provide amazing service. No two people require the exact same service across the board but there are some things that are universal such as promptness(read this as a sign of respect for your time), good communication in regards to services and prices, ability to follow through on agreements, standing behind his services and giving you the time you need in whatever respect.

End result
All other things aside, this area is what means the most to most folks. The quality guy will give you the results you discussed. It's very easy to make paint shiny. What carries far more weight is the ability to get the results and not generate new damage. The cheaper guys tend to cut out the fine details because time=money and he is "not charging enough for that". The USA has become a nation of people who have a throw-away attitude. They want the cheapest and the fastest. This has come to mean places like Mr Clean Carwash is jammed up busy while screwing up paint and parts because so few are interested in paying for quality. I've seen way too many people complain about the volume shops, yet still go back.

I happen to be one of those very expensive guys and I am proud of it. I take pride in the fact my clients are probably the pickiest folks around. I can identify with their sentiment. I love spending 40+ hours on a car. I love that my clients come away knowing more about true detailing and cosmetic car care than 99% of the guys working in those volume shops for years. They come away empowered and with a car that is truly where it belongs.

To wrap it up, there is a market for all types of detailers out there. Paying top dollar is not for everyone. I do not try to get every client that calls as some of them describe situations where I am not a good fit. Others describe me before they dedicate to an appointment. It's very easy to tell who is who during a phone conversation about a fine automobile. If you do not value the details and the long lasting results that should frankly be a given with more expensive guys, don't sweat it. But there is a larger sector of people who are tired of not finding the right detailer than you'd believe.

For the record, I know there are guys who charge a lot and do not take good care of their clients. They focus more on the bottom line than what the client really needs to be happy. With that said, just because someone charges a lot it does not mean they are quality. You must be able to read between the lines to find out if the guy you're talking to is the real deal or not.