The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

And sold by various "historians" as originals...e.g. Japan, SWB bwahahahaahaa

 

Item #24 on the agenda for when we get together for a drink...

 

It would be nice if the author could spell provenance. I wonder who the author is?

Erich

 

There's that name again: Alberto Pedretti.

 

Hey arlie why arent you posting in the 815/phil hill post that the cars not real....after all it was officialy written off in 1952................

 

Dr. Who was at THE RIGHT event, and SAW the car.......LOL!

He is being hypothetical........

We just didn't get to ride in it..........
Maybe next year!!!!!!!

 

I'm not sure if you guys are still interested in this thread, but I like looking at naked car parts (pervert) and have a couple questions/observations.

Question: It appears Ferrari uses/used sprial bevel gears as opposed to hypoid gears. I'm an engineer, spiral bevel have the pinion and ring axis interesecting, hypoid, the pinion is below the axis of the ring gear (lower floor). Are they spiral-bevel?

Question: Could you post a picture of the mating bell housing and pictures of the mating surfaces on the 603 gearbox? I am curious, did they hold the main diff bearings in with caps like an American rear axle would or hold it in with caps built into the bell housing casting?

It's very interesting to notice that many parts are "backwards" from what we do today. The u-joints are "inside out" (anyone know why?) and the diff side gears have integral shafts that are splined to fit the u-joint instead of the shaft fitting into a splined gear with integral u-joint. Just different ways to skin a cat, but interesting differences in the result.

Thanks.

Dave

 

Hi
This winter when we install it I'll take more photo's.
Best

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Glickenhaus

 

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Wayne,

I really do not think this adds at all to this thread ... they are not the official old race car authentication authority.

Lets not turn this process into a 'Oh I found another obscure reference which now states that Jim's car is #0846' thread, cause that means nothing other than they agree with Jim. Heck many of us agree but that does not prove the theory is right.

I've come to the conclusion that I really wish David, Jim, and a few others would simple meet somewhere with the car ... both bringing all their photos, etc. and discuss it out, over a few beers . Now wouldn't that be nice.

Personally while there are many points that Jim has made that make his theory plausable and I'm 75% with him ... there are still holes that need to be plugged in the chassis' history. We need to get David and Jim to agree at some point, and yes that is possible ... and heck has anybody questioned whether the chassis in #003/0846 is really the same chassis that David is refering to, and thus the original chassis that David had made for #003? Hence why he has one view that seems at odds with the chassis Jim has. Plenty of David's cars have had accidents ... even his 275LM, and they get repaired.

Otherwise I have to say that Arlie's point all along is coming true, that instead of finding real proof we are all happy to accept the masses ... hardly the right way to authenticate old and historically important cars IMO.

Pete

 

I'm wondering which point that may be. . .(!)

--that Napolis' car can never be "real", because it's been rebodied and rebuilt?

--that Napolis' car can never be "real", because there's a 30 year gap in its history?

--that Napolis' car can never be "real", because there isn't a photograph of guido and marcel out back of the ferrari factory stealing a burned hulk with the 0846 tag clearly in view?

--that Napolis' car can never be "real", because the previous owner is a trustworthy fella, and HE says it ain't so, and by the way he drove the thing over 200 mph, and doesn't that mean anything?

--that one video of bigfoot can be split into 65000 still images, and therefore Napolis' car can never be "real" because the one image that Napolis posted showing the differences between his frame and a P4 frame is useless and anyone who believes it believes in bigfoot 65000 times over?

--that frame damage, frame weld patterns, frame measurements, frame geometry, and statements from the guy who repaired the darn thing himself don't amount to a hill of beans, because it's only a replicar anyway, or because you'll just never know, or because you don't have absolute "proof", or because any old corvette can be registered in NY with any old number, or because someone at ferrari "wrote off" the thing, or. . .

 

Talk:Ferrari P
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
hey Dumb ****, stop editing this page to make up for your tiny flacid penis....when you own 2 330p3/4 / 412p then and only then can you comment

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ferrari_P"

What a sweet heart....

 

Pas Moi qui ecrit ca...

I did include the link to the 0846 papers and this thread which I really don't see how you could object to.

Unlike others when I beleive and state something I sign my name to it.

 

From post 419: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=135211375#post135211375

"I understand Signor Righini is/was a scrap metal dealer in Modena and many of the cars had been retrieved from the wrecker at a time when they were just old cars not amazing pieces of history."

Could this be of signifigance to the great debate?

 

Things like this not only happened in Italy, but in France and Belgium with Bugattis, etc, etc...

 

Yeah I'd be giving Signor Righini a phone call ... just the sort of history gap filler we need

Pete

 

What's really a bit sad is that some are now forging letters from Ferrari S.p.A. and posting them on wikiedia as fact:

The only letter that I have ever received from Ferrari Classiche/Umberto Masoni was dated October 5th, 2004 so prima facie, the date of this" letter", September 29th, 2004, proves is an obvious forgery as it refers to LETTER DATED AFTER THE DATE OF THIS LETTER.



"A letter from Ferrari S.p.A. - dated September 29th, 2004:

Subject: P3/4 Chassis no. 0846

Dear Mr. Glickenhaus,

We wish to thank you for the extensive dossier you have sent regarding the above mentioned vehicle that as confirmed on our letter dated October 5th, we have examined in detail.

The car was built on February 1966 as a P3 version and during its racing period, officially managed by the Factory, it went though several modifications in order to race the 24 hours of Daytona in 1967 as a P3/4.

We also confirm that, as reported in your dossier, the car caught fire during the 24 hours of Le Mans. It was then totally dismantled and because of the extended damages detected, the factory decided not to perform any repair and to write off the chassis no. 0846.

If some of the remaining components such as engine and gearbox were considered as possible spare parts, the chassis, because of its racing history and the fire damages suffered, was definitively scrapped.

Therefore eventual pieces retrieved from the trash container should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case.

We all would like to see forever these glorious pieces but unfortunately the chassis no. 0846 had a sad conclusion.

Yours faithfully Ferrari Classiche

Umberto Masoni"

For the record I am posting the September 29th, 2004 letter I did receive and have quoted in the 0846 papers.

What's even more funny were the letter dated "September 29th, 2004" to be real it wouldn't contradict anything I'm claiming or have claimed for years: That my car contains 80+% of the chassis remains of P 3/4 0846 among other original parts.

This part is esp. interesting: (Were it to be truely stated by Ferrari)

"If some of the remaining components such as engine and gearbox were considered as possible spare parts, the chassis, because of its racing history and the fire damages suffered, was definitively scrapped.

Therefore eventual pieces retrieved from the trash container should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case."

For many years this is exactly what I have posited happened to the remains of 0846's chassis.

Interestingly Ferrari has recently expressed an interest in meeting with me re: 0846 and I'm hopeful that meeting will occur and that this discussion will continue.
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NOT a forgery. I have a copy from an impeccable source. (And NO, I did not post it to Wikipedia) Simply that Ferrari wrote September 29th when it should have been October 29th.
Also, it beggars belief that someone should forge a letter and then put the wrong date on it.
It is no more a forgery than post #669 which also states the wrong date

See, it's a mistake that anyone can make - doesn't make it a forgery!
What is more mystifying is why there should have been umpteen posts about what Ferrari mean by 'written off', when this letter clearly states what they mean.

Nathan

 

Nathan

This does become weirder and weirder. I have never received the letter posted on wikipeadia. The first time I saw it was when it was posted there. What's even stranger, and until Monday when I can check my email archives to be sure, I think I received an email from Umberto after October 29, 2004 that makes no mention of that letter. I'll look and report.

I really hope this letter is genuine! On Monday I'll of course contact Ferrari and ask if it is.

It confirms that 0846's chassis was written off and scrapped, not melted into oblivion:

"Therefore eventual pieces retrieved from the trash container should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case."

For many years this is ALL and EXCATLY what I've posited happened. I've never disputed that as far a Ferrari is concerned 0846 was written off/scrapped thus under Ferrari's authentication definitions my car could not be authenticated by them.

As an aside I am not the one who retrieved the chassis remains of 0846 "from the trash container" and used them to "to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case."

I do believe that I am the one who discovered exactly where the chassis remains of 0846 wound up and to insure that Umberto's wish: "We all would like to see forever these glorious pieces..." remains possible.

As Jim M sang: "Strange Days..."

I hope your source is correct! Thanks very much for posting that your source believes it is.

 

Can someone please clarify for me (and others I am sure), exactly what wikipedia is and who has the ability to edit the content? I am utterly confused.

 

Wikipedia is an open-source (anybody can give and take) repository of information. A living encylopedia, if you will. I've only made a minor correction on one particular page.

Incidentally, there are folks who are bonafide Wikipedians - not anonymous.