The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

I too found that an interesting choice of words. For example last year at Cavallino Barchetta referred to the Sunoco 512, which at the time did not have it's original chassis fitted, as a "replica". This is the first time that I've seen them use the word "reconstruction".

Webster's Third defines "reconstruction" as "Something reassembled (as from parts) into it's original form."

BTW if you look at their photo you can see one of the chassis tubes that still bears the kink and repair caused by the 1967 Targa Florio crash which many of you have inspected first hand . It will be interesting to see what people think when I take 0846 back to the Targa this June...

As an aside I think Dr Stu summed it up best but perhaps I'm biased.

 

Well that seems a little better now that I know what the word actually means ...

Pete

 

I like the term reconstruction when used in reference to 0846. I personally choose to believe that it is the original car. But really, who can deny that today, it's a completely kickarse car, regardless of the circumstances surrounding it's resurrection!

 

they also put the sn in parentheses, whereas they do not for other cars.

Some nice shots of the car. Those tires are works of art in and of themselves.

 

Pete.
I noticed that you titled your thread Barchetta calls 0846 a reconstruction .... This is not strictly true. I have studied the relevant sections of Barchetta, and what you are actually referring to is the fact that the contributing photographer Bjoern Schmit has consistently captioned all his various photos of Jim’s P4 as Ferrari 330 P3-4 Reconstruction s/n ‘0846’.
I could find no other text or reference to ‘0846’ in this Barchetta article on Monterey. If I have actually missed anything, perhaps you could point me in the right direction ?

Or the rebuild of a replica ?
In fact, Bjoern’s use of the word ‘reconstruction’ is a total mis-nomer. For Jim’s P4 to be called a proper reconstruction of P3/4 #0846, it should of course be carrying P3/4 spyder bodywork, not that of a P4 berlinetta, which Jim elected to fit. But we’ve been there many times before, haven’t we, Pete ?
Perhaps a ‘bitsa’ might be a better definition / description of Jim’s P4. See this thread

Yes they certainly have, Pete because Barchetta’s chassis history section on #0846 still remains as was -
NOT updated, without any mention of, nor cross-reference to, Jim's P4.

Of course not. Best ‘let sleeping dogs lie’, I think, Pete

For those of you who’d like to check out the various galleries on Barchetta, referred to above, see:

One photo of Jim’s P4 at Monterey Historics (Bottom RH): - Gallery 2
More photos of Jim’s P4, plus 412P’s #0850 and #0854 (without italics): - Gallery 3
Another of Jim’s P4 (and P4 #0856) at Monterey FCA Concours: Even Chassis #’s – Gallery 3
And lastly P4 #0856 at Pebble Beach Concours: 330P4 Gallery

 

Hello Jim,

Yesterday, I have received the new (german) Ferrari Magazin 2004/02.
There is a very interesting story about the new "Ferrari Classiche" inside.
Please try to get in touch with Mr. Umberto Masoni and Mr. Roberto Vaglietti. I`m sure you will be highly delighted

Here is a smal (hope you can read/see) teaser.

With my very best regards to you & your family

Yours
Wolfgang
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So the Ferrari Magazin does not trust Gutenberg, but posts hand written ìssues to their subscribers...?

Best wishes, Kare

 

by P4R:

Yadda yadda yadda.......too many times; including how 0844, 0850, 0854 and 0860 have all had accident damage or restoration so that the bodies they currently wear are less original/authentic/Italian than when they finished their front-line careers AND possibly than the one on Jim's car.

And 0856 only did one race as a spyder; when ARE they going to put the 'Correct' body back on it?

Back to sleep then.

Paul M

 

Wolfgang... If at all possible, can you email me a hi-res version of that picture...? i would really appreciate it... [email protected]

 

Thanks, and although I love the car, I would still rather have the 166...but I'm an old fart and for some reason am especially attracted to Italian cars from the 30s through the 50s...

 

Its my pleasure, check your mail...its a f**** big attachement

Yours
Wolfgang

 

According to Fowler,Second; Hotchpot ; Is nearest to the original form.

So Hotchpot could be even better than reconstruction! but then again what do I know having never seen it; YET!

Happy Christmas eveyone.

A2004

 

Interesting comparison to the Sunoco 512, as Penske and Donohue thoroughly reworked that car after purchase, but before it's racing career.

It outlasted the Factory cars after that re-engineering effort!

 

He spoke at a FCA Track Weekend in Sebring a few years ago. Detailed taking the 512 completely apart and reinforcing where they could without adding lots of weight. Great guy! Still the enthusiast.

KevFla

 

Jim, P4Replica and other '0846' fanatics,

I do not want to get into the what is 0846 again, I have my views and believe it IS 0846, even if it was wearing a Ford Edsel body .

Anyway just wanted to say Merry Christmas and looking forward to the race ready development process of 0846 thread (Jim ... hint, hint ).

Pete
ps: Also Jim you have my support if you should need any encouragement to by a 250LM ... love to discuss and watch the tear down and rebuild of one of those babies

 

He is an interesting guy...it was his Daytona Dan Gurney ran in the Cannonball....


Quickly resprayed, in Sunoco Blue..

Anyway back to our thread..........

 

I dont see the big deal. "Reconstruction" sounds pretty close to right. Seems to me a reconstruction would be constructing again something that has been largely de-constructed which is exactly what happened to 0846.

Jim's car has large and important chunks of 0846 in it. The other large and important chunks are either Ferrari original or pretty dang close. It as all been "reconstructed" together to arrive at a complete and operational car, that is also extremely cool. It has more than enough of the original 0846 content to lay claim to that identity and legacy but it also has large question marks in its history. Reconstructed 0846..... yea, thats about right.


Terry

 

Kevfla/Alan
Mark was a wonderful guy as well and there's a piece of him in my Lola SL71-32 which he drove to several victories and of course in my MK-IV J6 which he drove to 4th OA at Le Mans in 67 with Bruce McLaren. Just to be perfectly clear The Sunoco 512 that showed up at Cavallino last year, which was referred to by Barchetta as a replica was the Donohue/Pensky 512 bolted onto a replica chassis. The original chassis was not on the car but in storage. The replica chassis enabled a larger dirver to drive the car and of course in the event of a shunt wouldn't cause the distruction of a piece of history. The original Donohue/Pensky car had many non Ferrari modifications which Mark wrote about in his book "The UnFair Advantage" The body for one was fiberglass, not made by Ferrari and the engine was built and modified by Traco. A great car and a wonderful piece of history.

Terry
Exactemente.
Best

 

I'm sure most people have seen this, but for those who haven't it's worth reading



http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/2005/january/p3_4_0846/text.asp

 

Cool article.

 

*clapping* i agree

 

Who is this ECN guy and why does he remind me of a neanderthallic oaf I knew in middle school?

Well written and cool article my friend!

--Dan

 

WHY was the car not shown last weekend at the Cavallino Classic in Palm Beach/Fla.?

 

Great. Finally an article that gives us a muchneeded clear view upon the 0846-case, allthough mr Glickenhaus did a marvelous job at that with the booklet.

 

I wasn't an oaf in middle school. That came later, grade 10 I think. You know, they say the mind is the first thing to go...

Thanks bud.