The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Yes we have and for the sake of everyone else ... Horsefly here is my work email address if you want to discuss this further ([email protected]). Don't have to ... but just giving you the option .

I do agree with the importance of numbers ... but if I found an Alfa Romeo P3 gearbox casing without numbers when digging in my backyard, I'd do the best I could do prove whether and if it was ever real.

Pete

 

First rule of Fight Club...


As for 0846, well... It would be foolish for anyone to believe that politics haven't influenced the general "belief" of what Jim has... There are other Ferraris out there that are just as if not more storied than 0846, but their provenance is not called into question... i realize Jim and i are friends and that my opinion is probably seen as less than an opinion because of that friendship... However, for a moment, i set all that aside and just look at the facts and i feel the same way...

 

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
Fight dirty even ....

 

Paul, if you read Erik's article, I think you will find the answer that you are looking for.

As far as Telaio goes, I KNOW NOTHING! NOTHING I TELL YOU! WHAT IS THAT CAR WITH THE BLACKED OUT WINDOWS DOING IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD?

Serioursly, I'm not a member. But I have been told that one of the rules is that what gets said on Telaio stays on Telaio.

Dale

 

Dale.
You know this, and I know this, but sometimes these things have a way of leaking out . Dare I even hint that I might know the names of at least half a dozen Telaio members that are regular FChat contributors or readers ?

 

As in any group with such a wide range of history and expertise, many had opinions. I recall negative and positive assertions on Telaio and people's opinions remain their own unless they care to share them here (Many Telaio folks frequent this site).

I read below(or above) that Ferrari are going to inspect the car. For a lot of people(with exceptions like Jim G!) I don't think it matters if they say yes or no- people will still have their opinions either way.

And for the record I have neither the expertise or background that would make my opinion of any more value than 99.9% of those expressed here.

Ummm... you will have to explain this???

TTFN
Andrew in NZ

 

Eureka! We have finally found an honest man on F-Chat!

Dale

 

YAY! Someone gets it! The car is as close as we will ever get to 846 as it appeared in the 60s. Who gives a crap if it isn't EXACTLY the same!

The way some people think, a car isn't original if it doesn't have the same 40
year old brake pads

 

Originally Posted by P4Replica
Did the Telaio committee, (whose decision in almost all similar cases, is taken as final),
ever come to a conclusion ?

Straight forward question, and self-explanatory, I would have hoped.
Still, it's late (for me), and grammar is not my strong point when I'm tired. Goodnight Gentlemen ....

 

In fact, the car probably looked more like it did in the '60's when David Piper still owned it ! LOL
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Telaio does not 'vote' or pass judgement on anything - everybody has an opinion on everything and some may care to share it. It is a small(ish) group of seriously hardcore Ferrari enthusiasts, historians, experts or whatever who gather and share data on Ferrari (There are also Maserati and Alfa groups too). The mix is diverse too - there are:

- world authorities on the marque, or individual Tipo
- people who run various tipo registers
- authors of many of the books that have been published
- well known car slugs (brokers)
- collectors
- restorers
- people who have owned(some still do) many serious cars
- publishers of periodicals, magazines etc
- people who don't car for any car later than say 1972
- people who only car about cars in the 90s
- people who chase cars down the road and get the chassis number when it stops at the lights - true ( Hi Lars)

There is a seriously wide range of expertise/experience but we all share a passion for collecting and sharing details on the cars.

Cheers
Andrew in NZ

 

Okay now I feel like there is some exclusive club that I do not have membership of ... and thus feel I need to know more (just like how normal people find so called celeb's interesting and more worthy than the rest of us ... ).

Thus what is this Telaio and where is it on the net?

Pete

 

What part of this do you not understand?

I KNOW NOTHING! NOTHING I TELL YOU!

 

LOL ... it's all sounding a bit too much like The Matrix from where I am sitting

Pete

 

Paul
The quote from Doug is from Atlas. He was refering to the chassis in my car as documented in the 100+ page document.

Best

 

Not to change the subject, but could one of the moderators please correct the title of this thread? Just because everyone screws up the spelling of my name (both of them), doesn't mean I've gotten used to it.

Thanks,
Erik Nielsen

 

You see what I have to put up with? I've even managed to mis-spell his name. He does get a bit testy about that one.

 

Jim

You don't do your credibility any favours when you misquote people -

eg - what DN really said was - "but I spare a couple of per cent for the possibility (and I put it no stronger than that) that Jim Glickenhaus's declared beliefs and conclusions are based upon sustainable evidence"

The true meaning of "but I spare a couple of per cent for the possibility (and I put it no stronger than that)..." is TOTALLY different from your abbreviated quote. Nye is saying the exact opposite of what you made it look like. He is highly sceptical of claims that this is 0846.

Substantiating your claims re 0846 relies to some extent on your credibility. Misquoting people doesn't help.

Nathan

 

Nathan
You are quite wrong. I quoted Doug's statement in it's entirety in post #9.
#9 Yesterday, 10:26 AM
Napolis
F1 Veteran
Honorary Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,471

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtofreak
WHY was the car not shown last weekend at the Cavallino Classic in Palm Beach/Fla.?



M my friend
Unlike you who have studied this matter in great detail other's who haven't are convinced that "It could not be true."

Some have stated: "I don't care what some old mechanic says about bent chassis tubes." (An old Mechanic who BTW, as confirmed by GR, unequivocally stated in front of several witnesses that he made the post Targa Floria repair to the chassis tubes in MY CAR upon viewing those repairs)

The answer to your question is DS/OG told JB not to allow my car at Cavallino. That is a direct quote from JB to JC. JB was quick to point out that this was not his doing or was he taking a position on my car.

The information that you have studied in detail has been public record for years and no one, as Dr. Stu has pointed out, has ever refuted it with hard fact that can explain the unique chassis details (0846 Build Sheets) on my car or the obvious chassis repair that corresponds to 0846's known accident history.

Against all odds, unbeknownst to me when I bought it, my car contains the substantial chassis remains of 0846. This fact makes many people very unhappy. Some of them could have bought this car for far less then I did.
Some are convinced that this is some elaborate scam by me to increase my net worth.

Hey you're a renown expert. You've seen the evidence. You've studied the car. Do you think I'm wrong?

I find it interesting that the only "expert" who has spoken on the record Doug Nye, someone who knows Piper very well and has studied my evidence, stated the following on Atlas.

" Most of me has just emerged from the big silver bird returning from Monterey. I have just read this - TNF being a back-home-at-last Priority these days, of course ....

"I met Mr G. - didn't get to see his car (due purely to my misunderstanding of where it was located) -we had an interesting conversation - and by the way the car pictured above at Pebble Beach was indeed Laurence Stroll's ex-Bernie E., ex-Albert Obrist, ex-David Clark macchina - not the Glickenhaus-Piper Spl.

Regarding the latter entity I remain personally intensely suspicious about the owner's current claims for it, perhaps 5% from simple prejudice (because anybody who parades as a badge his preference for running such cars on the public road - like a wild bird in a cage - twangs my personal "what a tosser" chord, as I made clear) - but I spare a couple of per cent for the possibility (and I put it no stronger than that) that Jim Glickenhaus's declared beliefs and conclusions are based upon sustainable evidence....unless he, or someone working on the car, has indulged in some pretty serious wilful falsification (which I also made clear).

Some protestations - such as "it will never be sold" - are familiar old songs, which I have heard sung time after time by many such people and which seldom survive the honeymoon period before cupidity takes over and the dollar speaks.

But this affair was really number 396B in the subject-matter list last week, and from the few discussions I had - or overheard - with a number of prominenten involving this matter, it seemed that most were coming from the "ha ha pull the other leg, it's got bells on" end of the spectrum.

From listening to Mr G., I am not so totally dismissive.

But what he has - regardless - remains a deeply flawed motor car and is NOT to be regarded as '0846'. It might - just MIGHT - be the closest we can now get to it...but I still truly doubt it.

For what that's worth..."

DCN
__________________
Ec KrEw mAn uP an KnO ZeN.

I parsed his statement in a following post in reply as to what I thought was germaine.

Go back and read the thread from the beginning.

Best
Jim

 

Jim
Thanks for the reply. I take your point about post #9.
But what DN wrote was a qualified statement. By parsing the statement you took out the qualification and changed the whole meaning of the statement.
Your Post #14 threw me - it could throw others. I guess that as a writer I am particularly sensitive to these types of mis-quotes.
Best
Nathan

 

Nathan
No question Doug's statement was a qualified statement. That's why I quoted it in full in post #9.

My post #14 was parsed simply as an answer to the question posed and quoted the point being that by parsing it is how " You(I) do (put up) with it."

Best
Jim

Originally Posted by CMY
If I was in Naplois' shoes, I'd probably organize the first P3/4 midnight 'TP raid' on DCN's house after reading those two paragraphs. I don't know how you do it.

-Chris



By ignoring the bulls hit and concentrating on what's important.

" Jim Glickenhaus's declared beliefs and conclusions are based upon sustainable evidence...

From listening to Mr G., I am not so totally dismissive. "

DCN
__________________
Ec KrEw mAn uP an KnO ZeN.

 

jim
what you wrote ain't what I read - apology offered
best regards
Nathan

 

Totally accepted
Best

 

I have it on reputable authority that "the members of the IAC/PFA meeting in Palm Beach concluded that the car is not genuine and authentic."
So it will be interesting to see what Ferrari S.p.A. makes of it, when, and if, they inspect Jim's P4 in June.
"Apparently the factory says that 0846 ceased to exist in the late 1960s already".