The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Just for the sake of history, can anyone translate the message on this picture? Apparently signed by Nino Vaccarella, picture appears in Ferrari's book "Piloti che Gente". And of course the picture shows P4 0846 after the accident at the Targa Florio in 1967.

 

Please post that picture on Atlas. My Italian isn't very good, especially when the writing looks like chicken scratch.

 

The Police Officer who's pulling on the right rear bodywork is the Gentleman who I met up at Lime Rock last weekend. He grabbed the tail and demonstrated how he pulled 0846 to the side 37 years ago. Pretty wild. He remembered that the right rear wheel was "loose and flopping around".

 

Jeff - If you do - don't forget to get the photographer's permission first. You know what they're like about policing copyright infringements on there !

 

Just bought a signed copy of the new book "Il Preside Volante - La mia storia automobilistica" by Nino Vaccarella with foreword by Luca di Montezemolo, all written in Italian. It gives an account of his racing life from year to year, of course including the Targa Florio race of 1967. The front cover shows a picture of Nino in #0846.

 

I have always thought that if you own a print, and post it somewhere, there is no problem...as you are only posting a picture of something that is your personal property...or am I mistaken?

 

No, you sniveling little **** stirrer... You asked about taxes - which i thought was pretty low from the get go, but oh well - and Jim answered your question... Then YOUR PROCEEDED TO HARASS HIM about what the bill of sale said... You KNOW that back then he had no idea what he truly had, so what do you think the bill of sale said or whatever the f_cking people at Customs look at...?

You're such a jealous, ignorant fool, i'm amazed that you even own a computer, let alone know how to work it...

As far as "getting banned" for expressing a different opinion than everyone else, why don't you go ahead and ask Mr. G. how many emails he got from me a year or so ago... How many unbelieveably annoying questions i hammered him with about his car... How much doubt i expressed, how much question of authenticity i incessantly rehashed... i never got banned... i never got threatening emails, i never received "mysterious" viruses or any of the other stuff anyone in this thread or any other thread claims to be the victim of, after expressing a different opinion than everyone else, about Jim and 0846.

You disgust me and your taxes question just evaporated what little respect i used to have for you.

 

I can read Italian but I can't read chicken scratch. I'll have to get my Grandfather to give it a try, his handwriting looks exactly the same!

 

? ... insert confused expression here ... I'm awake and do not see what the drama is all about, or what you are trying to stir up.

I'm going to read on and have a look at the photos Jim posted .

Pete

 

Jim,

Just had a slightly worrying thought about your car and the Targa re-inactment. I have heard of a few stories about fans getting too exited and 'borrowing' pieces of the cars in some of these events.

I remember reading of one incident (I think the South American/Mexico event ... name escapes me at the moment ... ) where a guy in a rare Alfa Romeo was having motor issues and stopped and removed his bonnet. During the repair process his bonnet disapeared, never to be returned.

Very sad that people do this ... totally misguided enthusiasm. Lets just hope that the authorities have the Latin enthusiasm under control ... which I'm sure they will

I also remember with great sadness the latest Milli Miglia accident with the Alfa Romeo 8c ... apparently caused by someone getting way over excited and forgetting that these events are supposed to be touring events and fun as top priority ... not lap times.

Anyway, I'm sure you have done heaps of these things ... and it will be a blast, just after living with/through much of the effort that has gone into the restoration, er, feel somewhat involved . BUT a race car is a race car first and foremost!

Pete

 

As far as Atlas F1 is concerned, Stuart - that ain't good enough - you either need to own the copyright to original photo, or have express permission to use it. Didn't you notice how many photo posts they 'zapped' from the 330P4 thread, after I mistakenly posted that one copyrighted to the Klementaski collection ? They are absolutely paranoid about copyright infringement on Atlas. Have you not read the threads ? Their policy now (apparently driven by 'Bira') appears to be - if in any doubt delete !

 

Absolutely nothing, Pete ....
I was just alluding to the different time zones - US PST versus UK BST and whatever time it was in Oz. Wayne was up posting late, and I had just got home (early a.m. my time) from a very late night out - and that's about the usual time that you seem to be online most days. Nothing else ....

 

Interesting that you should mention that car, Pete, because the person who is now entrusted with the rebuilding of that Alfa - Rob Wilson of R.M. Wilson Engineering, also happens to be building an aluminium bodied P4 Spyder replica. Here are some older photos of the body/chassis, while it was still at Shapecraft's premises: http://www.shapecraft.users4.donhost.co.uk/ferrari1.html

 

My post was not intent to incite, rather i descended to a level of communication Arlie could relate to so i could get my point across, quickly and clearly.

However, i do understand that if i do not learn to grow up, i should remain out of this section...

...but what about the other sections...? i can still go in those...? Why...? If i don't grow up and learn how to have a discussion like an adult, why is it only THIS section i can't come into...? Hmmm...

 

Because Carbon, my good friend, there are already enough 4 year olds posting in here. The playpen is full. You're personage only serves to overflow the children's section.

Much as we admire your youthful enthusiasm, you must strive to remain on an adult level here. The Vintage section is for us serious adults only.

Now totter back to off topic.

Dave M.

 

LOL, you guys are foul.

 

Yes, I know they deleted some photos. I think they simply don't want to deal with any potential problems, no matter if they are legally correct or not.

I guess it is simply easier to send any photos by attachment to an e-mail to those people who you think might be helpful.

Heck, I've been told I would be sued over comments I made about various car books on internet sites!

We live in a crazy world, and it seems to be getting crazier every day.

 

Yes - that's what I ended up doing. I emailed a scan of the original published photo of that #23 P4 berlinetta (that was also reproduced in the Grenada postage stamp) to Doug Nye; Jim G., and a couple of others. Shame everbody else on Atlas couldn't see it, though. Jim subsequently posted it to this thread, a few pages back (Post #429).

 

I believe Mr. Vaccarella was described as a local schoolteacher. His "chicken scratches" would be more appropriate for a doctor! Hopefully someone will be able to decipher them.

The only pictures I have posted on Atlas/TNF were pictures I took myself, because of the copyright issues mentioned. I think it's all pretty silly, unless you are trying to make money off someone else's work. If I'm asked not to do it, I won't do it.

 

Jeff
I believe that your posting comes under "fair use" ie: for scholarly discussion.
While you're at it take a look at the photo in the upper right hand page (223) above the photo you posted. Look at the right rear wheel. Keep that photo in mind as you read my post on 0846's Targa crash (1967). I'll scan it tomorrow. (For Scholarly discussion)

 

"con la promessa d'una targa piu fortunata"

literally translated....with the promise of a luckier/more fortunate targa


Perhaps something along the lines of....hoping for more luck next time in the Targa

Cheers
Simon

 

Paul S. was kind enough to send me a scan of Doug Nye's article in "Old Motor October 1979" along with several photo's of 0900 and 0003/0846. (My use of "0003/0846" in no way implies that Paul S. agrees with any of my beliefs)

Doug's article is very interesting inspite of a few minor typo's.
His concluding paragraph touches on the crux of matter. You can not make a P3 chassis from P4 blueprints.

" After losing his foot in a Porsche 917 accident at Le Mans while filming for Steve McQueen. David Piper pondered what to do with his unique pile of P4 spares. All he needed was a chassis frame to knot them into a complete car, but of course there was none available. Ferrari was too busy to make him one, but David found Mr. Ferrari in an expansive mood and one day and "Per nostra Piper" the Old Man arranged to give him copies of all P4-related chassis drawings and permission to build up another car...not so much a replica, more a younger sister for the other cars. This is what David has done over the past four or five years, in his spare time, and the result has been given the all-purpose number '0900' by Ferrari; a number applied also to Marion Chinetti's flat 12 312PB sports-racer built up from parts in the USA. It is this car that is free of 'no racing' restrictions today and which keeps the remarkable 330P4 in battle. Makes your mouth water, doesn't it?"

 

These are photo's of 0003/0846 (again 0846 my beliefs not Paul S'.) pretty much as I bought her from David.