David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

I'll use it in a sentence for you.

I stopped attending my place of edification in the third grade.

There. What's so hard about that?

 

What happened to the"just one man's opinion"?

Ciao
Oscar

 

Enjoy The Historic Targa Florio. I drove it twice in 0846. Do watch the roads.
The last time I ran there they were very bad.

Best

 

As an curious technical aside, do these racing 330 four-cam family of P engines (i.e. Tipo 237/241/247) have liners which screw into the heads ala the mid-to-late 1950s four-cam V12 motors, (i.e. Tipo 136//140/141 in the 290/315/335 S cars)?

 

Hi Jim, see the thread about the TF....It might be cancelled......
But thanx, we will be enjoying some free time anyway. Sorry we missed you and your cars again, but as we know by next week probably a wise decision to skip this event this year....

ciao
Oscar

(sorry all, please continue this never ending story....)

 

Then perhaps you were literally driving 0846 in anger

 

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Show me the evidence that it will never be raced in anger.Show me.There isn't any. And the car as advertised is being set up to qualify for racing. Never say never unless you can back it up. And finally David Piper gave much to you to help you get started. You took advantage of everything he had to give you.You owe him respect. You don't hear him saying your cars are "Napolized" He has stayed above and out of the fray and to date he appears the better man. tongascrew

 

Where is your evidence Enzo gave Piper permission to destroy factory cars?
Where is your evidence 'much of 0858 P4 will exist again someday'?
Where is your evidence Talacrest are 'of the most respected restoration shops'?
Where is your evidence 0858 will be raced again someday?

You demanding evidence from others is becoming comical quite frankly.

 

Tonga what part of the absolute fact that there is No evidence whatsoever that 0858 will ever race in anger again are you unable to understand?

"Not True.

Talacrest does not own 0858. 0858 is for sale. No One knows whether or not it will sell and if it does who will buy it and what the new owner may or may not do with it.

There is NO evidence that the Piperised 0858 WILL ever "race in anger" anywhere or anytime.

None."

Do not misquote me or mischaracterize what I said.

As for David what he's done to 0858 speaks for itself. Some have called it "butchery". Some have called it an "an abortion". Some have called it a "FrankenFerrari". I agree with them. You don't. You're entitled to disagree but your ranting lecturing of those who disagree with you is pathetic.

 

Read my posts. I have never "demanded" anything. Ok "kindly" tell us what in all your experience you have against Talacrest. Talacrest has done hundreds of well doccumented excelent restorations and continues to do so. Noone will have any respect for your demands as long as you appear ignorant. tongascrew

 

You made the claim Talacrest are 'one of the most respected restoration shops' and therefore it shouldn't be too differcult for you to give a few examples they have completed that weren't outsourced to other shops.

I even gave you three links to images of 0858 sitting in Piper's workshop both pre and post paint despite you claiming all images showing them at Talacrest's. It hasn't slipped my attention you haven't acknowledged that.

Lots of demands of evidence on your part with seemingly nothing of the sort in return other than claims and falsehoods.

 

Come on Jim, your band of merry men have been ranting and lecturing me and whome ever disagree with you for ever.It is really kind of "pathetic. Sticks and stones. I will continue giving you great credit for so much. Show some class. Give David the respect he deserves for all he did to help get you get started.He did right. If you wish to continue ranting and lecturing me go for it. It doesn't seem to change anything. I will continue to gratefully accept it and keep my replys pleasant, factual and on point . tongascrew

 

Tonga once again you fail to answer the Questions posed, totally ignore the truth and pretend what you've posted isn't total bull****.

"You made the claim Talacrest are 'one of the most respected restoration shops' and therefore it shouldn't be too difficult for you to give a few examples they have completed that weren't outsourced to other shops.

I even gave you three links to images of 0858 sitting in Piper's workshop both pre and post paint despite you claiming all images showing them at Talacrest's. It hasn't slipped my attention you haven't acknowledged that.

Lots of demands of evidence on your part with seemingly nothing of the sort in return other than claims and falsehoods. "

"Talacrest does not own 0858. 0858 is for sale. No One knows whether or not it will sell and if it does who will buy it and what the new owner may or may not do with it.

There is NO evidence that the Piperised 0858 WILL ever "race in anger" anywhere or anytime.

None."


"Where is your evidence Enzo gave Piper permission to destroy factory cars?
Where is your evidence 'much of 0858 P4 will exist again someday'?
Where is your evidence Talacrest are 'of the most respected restoration shops'?
Where is your evidence 0858 will be raced again someday?

You demanding evidence from others is becoming comical quite frankly."

Ranting about respecting someone who many of us feel no longer deserves any instead of answering specific posts that refute or question your silly statements is "comical quite frankly." and "pathetic".

 

Forgive me, as I am not up to speed with all things P4 like many on this thread, but is it the case that Napolis happily purchased what he thought was in his words a "piperised" P4 reproduction from David Piper which turned out to have actually be made from parts of a P4 that ferrari had originally built, and he then "Glickenhaused" it to become what it is today?

That is a bit of a result, lucky man. wow I would be over the moon to own such a car rather than constantly slating the seller Mr Piper?

 

The problem is that (understandably for a man in his position!) DP came out against "0846" being "the" 0846. Possibly in whole or in part as a result of that, several other prominent Ferrari historians expressed skepticism back when Napolis was first publicly expressing his views on the car. As I recall this led to the car being excluded from several big Ferrari events, including the Cavallino Classic. Whether you agree or disagree with Napolis on 0846 or any number of other topics, I don't think it can be disputed that he has a long memory when it comes to these types of things!

 

What does what I bought from David 13 years ago which turned out to be something that neither of us realized at the time really was have anything to do with what David has recently done to 0858?

I agree that in the matter of 0858 David is a hired hand doing what the current owner wants done.

That too has nothing to do with the quality or lack thereof of his recent work on 0858 which speaks for itself.

If someone want's to own 0858 as recently (pick your own word) by David for the sum of 25MM USD all he has to do is write a check for that amount.

This is about 350 Can Am 0858, what's been done to it, and the quality of that work. It has nothing to do with 0846.

 

??

David has never changed his position on 0846. His claims have been known and disclosed BY ME for 13 years. I like David. Last time we ran into each other we had a friendly chat. He kindly asked about my son who he also met. The fact that I like David has nothing to do with the fact that I think his work on 0858 is piss poor. The fact that David doesn't think I'm right about 0846 and is angry that many agree with me and think he made a huge mistake selling it to me for what he did, didn't stop him from complementing P 4/5. None of this is or has ever been personal.

 

Tonga.

Where is your evidence that Napolis's cars will never be raced in anger again?

I don't think they should be as I think they should last the ages as complete as possible and I feel that he has done these cars justice with meticulous restorations that far exceed what your loves Talacrest and Piper have done for what was once a complete 0858.

But seeing that it's possible that 0858 will or will not ever race in anger again isn't the same true that Napolis's cars will or will not race in anger again?

Really. There are no facts to either being, as you say facts, as these are future assumptions not facts.

And if you want to see more of P4's who has been delivering on this better? Napolis or Talacrest. I have seen every part on Napolis's cars. Old and new due to he shares his cars voracioulsy. Whereas I've barely seen anything from T crest. Fact

Going along your line of logic I might as well say that someday Napolis's cars will be recreated as an Opel Cadet and a Oldsmobile Bravada. There is the same amount of fact in that as in your statement.

For a man who demands the facts you are not that factual. And that's a fact. Another fact is that Piper and Talacrest have not even come close to the level of work on Jim's cars. And that's a fact. Another fact is, you are not the worlds foremost expert on something if someone does it better then you. Fact.

Another fact is I don't know of ONE part on this car that has been done correctly? Fact.

But one fact that remains is you don't seem to know what a fact is. And that, my freind, is a fact.

 

It is also fact that all of my cars have been publicly displayed and accessible to the Pubic many, many times over many, many years.

Should anyone wish to see 0846 it will be at Amelia Island Concours next spring.

 

If there is ever some sort of horrific global nuclear disaster, surely only cockroaches and this thread will survive.

It seems impossible for the current owner commissioning the work to not be aware of this Fchat discussion, it would be interesting if the owner chimed in but I guess unlikely to happen.

 

If he hasn't directly his feelings have been expressed by proxy.

 

I would have thought Jim G, who I dont always agree with, has a fairly successful argument that DP while he may have been a good racer back in the 1960s and owned some great cars over the years has not done a great restoration on this and in his words was "piss poor". To that end I agree with Jim. Hashing and rehashing if it is going to be raced or not doesnt alter that argument, because it is a pointless argument, it will be up to the new owner and makes no difference.

 

Sadly, true.

 

#1I never said anything of the kind. If I did you could quote chapter and verse. Well?
#2Look at the Talacrest web site. It's
all there.If you don't like it take it up with Talacrest but I would be very careful how you do this.
#3Look at the Talacresr web site.Their restorations of Ferraris and other car are all there. Then talk with the owners.You can also check the web site for each car.
#4 Read the Talacrest description of how the car is being prepared for competition and David Piper's interview with John Collins
And so where is your evidence? I've shown you where mine is. Now show me yours. tongascrew