An unbearable one.. There is nothing Happy about Mondays Unhappy Monday to you .. Nice weathertho, still T shirt in October amazing.
Given the time difference you've got more Monday behind you than I do. We've got rain. The blue car can't come out and play.
Haha well that makes me feel better and worse at the same time, I take it that rain will be winging its way over here... Get the polish out and clean the blue beast in the hard to get places..
I think what they can do is a kind of limited traction control that has no feedback - ie they can't use any other signals to do it. But, as they can have a map for every gear, they can also program the engine not to accelerate faster than a certain rate in any gear - presumably to protect the engine if the gearbox breaks or malfunctions. If they set it at the maximum acceleration the car can do in a certain gear without breaking traction, it would act as a form of traction control that a good driver could exploit. This wouldn't need any input outside of engine rpm and gear which would already be tracked legally within the ecu. It's crude, but if they do it well they could have some advantage.
I don't think that open loop traction control, especially of such a crude kind, would work. Much less in the extreme environment that is F1. I'm not even sure that a mapping as you describe even exists.
Just as well you aint got a pink car .. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyK2iHjnx8c]XTC Pink Thing - YouTube[/ame]
And today's episode of obscure pop culture references... not as easy as the last time with the prisoner! Image Unavailable, Please Login
It would be difficult, but we know the drivers can change maps from in the car, so if a driver hit say a certain wear point with a certain tire compound, he could switch to a map that was set up to exploit the tires properly at that point with this 'crude' traction control for a number of laps until the tires stopped working well. It might explain why Vettel could reel off some crazy fast laps and sectors for periods of time. Then again, it could be maps that blow the floor more aggressively or something like that.
First, you have to differentiate between a map, ie a constant and stationary function that maps one or more input variable to usually one output variable, and a mapping, ie a set of values and arrays of values (=maps) which parametrize the ECU functions. The functional structure of the ECU determines which parameters (maps) there are, and you can't just invent new ones which magically do something. The driver selects the mapping, not just 'the map', as there's a lot more than one. Second, I don't see any way how you can implement a traction control by just switching between some engine parameters. A TC is difficult to realize even for normal road conditions, it's extremely difficult to realize under the extreme conditions of race car operation, and it's impossible to realize when you can't write functions for it. If there's interest, I can collect some real world ECU data and show you guys an example how a function in an ECU looks like and which role the mystified "maps" play in there... I know I'm repeating myself, but IMHO you're all overestimating their power by a large margin
You got me there mate, over my head, along with your tech knowledge on the functioning of ECU's and all .. All good stuff tho.
So the RB has torque vectoring & over the slightest bumps it compensates power to enhance grip? Did I read this correctly?
Hang on, if as Ferraripilot says is true, ie. they can fiddle with the ignition mapping then they (anybody) can incorporate traction control with the "control ECU". They all measure wheel rpm (by a separate circuit if necessary) and engine rpm, and know what gear they are in, so just fiddle with the ignition mapping when wheel spin is detected. There is no rule, as far as I am aware, stipulating you cannot have another processor in the car. In the end though I think Vettel just gets on the throttle earlier than Weber, but he is only slightly faster so no big gain. Vettel when he is happy with the car is a very confident driver. Pete
Absolutely. It's like saying you'd screw one of your daughters over another. Highly unlikely. Vettel is simply better, and makes Webber look like a mid-field racer (which he is considered now). Whether his car is identical to Vettel's or not, it's at least 99%+ equal at worst, so he should have been finishing second constantly. And about this traction control business, it's all semantics for those folks. If they can stretch the meaning of something, they do. And ALL of them do, not just RB. That reminds me of Bill Clinton < ha ha>.
Maybe they are smarter than we give them credit for, and making it not so obvious. It is obvious to all that can think that Mark is screwed by his team when and if necessary with these amazing gearbox issues so he has to start 10th and not challenge Vettel in the first corner ... Pete
What they might be able to do (and I'm not sure about this) is switch between different ignition maps. You can't realize a TC by doing that. "Detect wheelspin and fiddle with ignition map based on wheelspin" are functions which simply are not there. I didn't read through the rules, but allowing other ECUs would make the "standard ECU" rule pointless.
Yes please! Particularly the bolded part.... I think "we're" all guilty of, to quote Elwood, "not lying, but bull****ting a little!" I've read the rules and MES' site - There's a new, more "powerful" ECU mandated for next season (optional this) with many more channels IIRC. But what they're doing with the "mapping" (?) dials on the 'wheel needs more thought & dicussion. +1 You're the guru, not us. But, I do know the feedback loops are simply not there to do what's being intimated. Sure, they know wheelspeed and any "spikes" are obviously recorded (and probably get the driver a bollocking!) but I'm also pretty sure that the rules explicitly state (in laymans terms ) that "no action may be taken by anything based on this, or any other data". Cheers, Ian
The 2013 rules; So, unless they're all cheating (!), whatever they are doing when they twirl those knobs, it isn't changing "ECU accelerator shaping maps", Cheers, Ian
Ugh I miss the days where the driver had to control the throttle for various conditions. Not just relying on the ECU to do everything for you. Such is life.
They can do it completely without altering the accelerator map. The accelerator pedal would still use the same map, it would be the internal engine map and rev limit etc. settings that would change.
