RobzWorkz #2: Shifter / shift shaft improvement

FWIW when I did mine the final adjustment was that (when in 3rd) the lever needed to be decidely closer to the 4/5 fork, otherwise I could feel it catching when going from 3rd to 4th.

Its tiny, tiny amounts but I think this is where you can't really eyeball it or measure it, you have to do it by feel.

Basically you need to button it up, fill it with oil & then drive it - you will feel if its being awkward going from one plane to the next. Its the shifts from 1-2 & 3-4 & then back again that you are interested in.

If it is a bit sticky then you jack the car up, stick it in 2nd or 3rd & go at the turnbuckle underneath & adjust it one way or the other - but it is very small amounts & DO NOT undo the thing unless its in 2nd or 3rd!

 

Yes at the end of the day, a road test cant be beat.
When I undid the turnbuckle nut I did it with the lever in neutral. It was effing tight and I didnt want to undo it in gear for fear of loading the shifter. Yes it did move all over the place so had to keep checking that I could get all gears, ie it was not one notch out. Its definitely a 2 person job!
It would be cool to design an improvement for this adjustment, its so fine, maybe cut the turnbuckle in half and braze on two round plates which mate together with slotted holes for bolts.

 

Ok, ran through this procedure yesterday, and I was already at dead center on 2/3 so no adjustment was necessary. I then closed up the gear box.

Then I re-installed the oil sender and dipstick tube on the motor oil sump.

F'in dipstick tube....maybe my hands are big but that oil dipstick tube nut at the block union is a PIA to put back on. I finally had to remove the passenger rear tire and fender liner, sit under there with two different wrenches, and go 1/16 of a turn with one wrench, switch wrenches and go 1/16 of a turn with the other wrench, etc. Only about 90 minutes later was it back on tightened all the way. I'd have gotten really frustrated if I didn't love the car so much.

Anyway, I managed to change the oil filter and refill the motor oil before I called it a day.

Next weekend I'll refill the gear oil and test drive.

 

Now you know why there are only a hand-full of competent techs out there.

 

Finally got back to this project earlier today. I refilled the gear box oil, first time I ever used Redline. Closed it all up and took it for a 5 minute test drive. It was great to get it back on the road, the car sounded great and ran great. My reassembly and final adjustments were spot on as the car shifted perfectly with no interference. I still need to reinstall the 1000 bits of center console, but the car is back on the road.

The gearbox was totally transformed. I can't even begin to describe it. I had the hard 2nd gear shift when cold thing, it never phased me I'd just wait for the car to warm up. The car is kept in a heated garage, and it was about 50 degrees here in NYC today, so I didn't get to test if Redline helped with the cold/2nd gear challenge. But overall the gearbox just felt and sounded different, significantly more responsive, precise and it just shifted nicely. I still can't get over the change, and just by moving from one gear oil to another.

The shaft movement is still stiff from the new shaft seals and silent blocks, so the stick shift lever feels different than what I was used to. But I expect that should loosen up by summer time.

On to reassembling the console now.....

 

When I put everything back, I used 10mm nylocs for the pans, as I had some "weeping" down the studs that I wanted to put a stop to. I know a few guys recommended stat-o-seals under the OEM nuts, but I went straight nylocs, McMaster part #92461A300, under $5 for a 100. As they are under the car, I wasn't concerned with keeping the stock "look". Here's a photo.
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Thanks for the awesome thread! I was able to adjust my shifter thanks to the great pictures you provided. They helped me understand what I was attempting to do as I did NOT remove the pan. My first attemp ended up with a shifter stuck in the 1st/reverse side of the shift box. Your pictures made it clear that I had adjusted the linkage the wrong way.

My suggestion for doing an alignment without removing the pan is to remove the shift plate and feel where the lnkage needs to be.

Also I had read somewhere that the linkage near the transmission that holds the rear silent bloc should be horizontal or slightly clockwise (I believe thats what I read). However, mine started slightly counter clockwise and I adjusted it even further counter clockwise to make it work.

I do have 1 question. In your very first picture there is a yellow wire under the shift shaft. What does that go to? I have a yellow and black wire there that is not attached to anything. Rear defrost?

thanks,
Aaron

 

Hi Rob and all the guys here with similar experiences.

I have a 1987 Mondial 3.2 which shares the same engine, gearbox and most running gear as the 328 and after searching on the forum I found this great thread, so here goes:

Recently it has become almost impossible to shift into 1st, 2nd or even 3rd and 4th and 5th can be very clunky too. Its so bad that i fear snapping the shift stick or damaging something as it just wont go into gear when i start the engine to move off. Reverse nearly always crunches.

When i eventually get it in gear with force and drive off, the gear stick tends to pop out as i go from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd etc. After a very long drive, say about half an hour it gets easier but not great to shift gears although reverse still crunches.

I changed the shift shaft seal and clutch slave cylinder a few months ago at Ferrari main agent and all was ok.

Am i right in saying that the problem would the silent block bushes (no. 28 x2 in the diagram), one or both? Can the silent block bush near the gearbox end of the car be replaced simply by unbolting it and changing with a new one or does anything else have to be removed?

I am confident in changing the silent block bush by the gear stick between the seats following the great instructions here. If i did that only to start with do i need to adjust the tie rod too? No. 10 in the diagram.

Are there any other parts there in the attached diagram that i need to replace to prevent and ease the shifting problems?

Thanks and hope the above makes sense

Peter
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I always love your threads, Rod. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise with the rest of us.

 

If all the gears are hard to get into, as a first guess I would say the shift shaft slipped and rotated thus the fork not engaging the gear levers correctly.

It is a relatively easy fix but most here would have to pull the tranny pan to do it correctly.

 

The bushes are the first thing to check especially as there seems to be play in the longitudinal movement of the linkage as well as rotational.

If the bushes are OK or if changed and the adjustment is still off it is possible to adjust using the turnbuckle without removing the pan.
When they replaced the shift shaft seals they would have had to re-adjust afterwards, maybe they got it wrong.

You could try the WSM checking procedure which is:

Remove gate plate
Place lever into third
Move the lever left and right and measure the distance which it can move before limiting either side of the centre detent position. It should be equal. This verifies the L-R adjustment is pretty close.
Replace gate plate. Place the lever into neutral and check it is in the middle of the horizontal gate slot. This checks the fore-aft adjustment. Note the fore aft detent is provided by the box but the L-R detent is in the lever.
Where in London are you? I might be able to help if you need the adjustment done.

 

Hi Andy that's great, I appreciate your advice.

I don't have the workshop manual but I certainly would like to give it a try. I was going to order both silent block bushes and attempt to change the one by the gear stick and strip and clean the parts inside it at the same time. But if a simple adjustment may work then that would be great!

I am in north London, Southgate. How about you?

Cheers.

 

Other side unfortunately, Wimbledon.

But what you dont want to do is try to adjust it if the bushes are knackered. These would need to be checked/changed first.

 

Thanks Rob and Mark,


Do you mean to remove the gear box sump? Not sure what you mean by pan.

My problem is with EVERY gear. I have to put considerable force to get it in first. Too much force actually! In fact i cant get it in any gear except for 4 and 5 but still not so easy. Reverse always crunches.

Before this problem started everything was fine. I never even had the 2nd gear issue everyone always talks about. Something is definitely wrong and its not the oil. I just had it replaced when i had the shift shaft seals changed a few months ago at Ferrrai.

I just checked the gear stick lever position with engine off. When in neutral i pushed it to the left and right and let go of it go and it rests in the middle, horizontally and between gears 2 and 3 which seems normal.

When i moved the gear stick lever forward to 2nd gear it moves about 8mm before there is resistance to change gear and when i let it go it just stays there, it wont spring back. When i push it back to 3rd gear, again there is no resistance for about 8mm and when i let it go it stays there.

Therefore when i move the gear stick forward or back there is at least 8mm of travel before resistance is felt to change gear and does not spring to the middle, it stays between the slots. The gear stick will stay anywhere in that 8mm travel forward or back when i let go of it. Does this sound normal? I don't know if it was always like this or not.

Thanks.

 

Thanks Andy,

I will see what i can do. Wimbledon is not too far if its not raining Like you said its not worth adjusting if the silent block bushes are worn.

Does anyone know if the one near the engine is exposed and can be done straight forward or do panels need removing? I dont have a lift so i will need to put it on ramps.

 

Its right there on the end of the shift shaft in front of the engine - but it may not be the easiest job to do in situ - I'm not even sure you could do it. I did mine on the bench & even there it wasn't a picnic.

 

Thanks Lain,

Is it not just a bolt that goes through the silent block bush that you need to undo, remove it and disconnect the fork and put the new bush in and re-assemble?

Or am i being totally misled by the diagrams that make it look very straight forward?

I may just do the one by the gear stick in the centre console and get that other one by the engine done by Ferrari as i really dont know anyone that has a lift or the knowledge of how to do it properly.

I just hope its the bushes and a re-alignment that needs doing.

Cheers.

 

That is normal but thats not checking the box at all because the L-R detent is provided by the lever itself.
If you could try the check I mentioned above it would be useful, with the gate plate removed and lever in third. So, go into third, remove the 2 screws and lift the plate. If the lever wont move left or right a roughly equal amount when in gear the adjustment is out. If it is out, this can be corrected without removing the pan (bottom of gearbox).

Of course there is always the possibility of clutch drag. Does the box feel wrong when stationary also?
You could try the clutch drag test, with the car jacked up do the rear wheels spin when in gear but clutch depressed.

Yes the bushes are as you mention, straightforward.

 

Thanks guys,

I will check on the weekend as I'm away the next few days and see what i find out and get back to you.

Many thanks for you input everyone.

 

Yeah, first thing I thought of when I read the symptoms.

One other possibility - if the car has headers wrapped in the aluminum heat shields there is very little clearance between the front header and the shift shaft. A motor mount issue could possibly have those two come in contact and make moving the shift rod difficult. Unlikely but I think possible. My GT4 definitely had contact between the two, but the degradation was slow enough that the shift shaft just slowly wore through the aluminum shield. Other than yet another engine bay rattle it didn't affect shifting much.

 

I did both silent blocks and replaced them with delrin blocks in my garage, car on jack stands. Not hard just a bit of a PITA.

The silent block nearest the shift lever was by far the hardest as the center console had to come out. The silent block nearest the oil/tranny sump is a piece of cake in comparison. You do have to pull the tranny pan to pull the end piece of the shift shaft and to do that, you have to remove the gear selector fork. You can replace the two sump seals for the better (IMO) X shaped "O-Ring" seals, at the same time. You can fix a lot of issues at the same time here that you will have to address sooner or later, no doubt about it.

This is the very first project I did on my 308 and it was the very first time I EVER wrenched a car of any kind; TOTAL NEWBIE.

You CAN do it.

 

Thanks Mark,

I will hopefully be tackling the issue and find out the root of the problem soon as I get a free weekend without rain

From what i understand i may have a dragging clutch. When i try to put it in gear it won't go in but the car nudges forward a bit like it wants to move but can't. And when i do finally get it in gear it pops out as a move the lever to change to another gear.

Thanks.

 

Good Luck Peter and keep us posted.