MASSA DOESN'T SUCK

It seems that I haven´t made a good job of explaining myself. Or maybe it´s just that you didn´t read what I wrote. I´ll repeat it:

I´ll explain this: let´s suppose that Hamilton penalties DIDN´T EXIST. NEVER. NIL. NADAA. ZERO PENALTIES. This is a "what if" game, we can do it if we please. And also let´s suppose that Massa didn´t suffer those problems with the hose, the engine, etc...

Without that Massa would be world champion. So if both things (the penalties and the problems with the car) hadn´t happened, why would Massa be then an undeserving champion? After all, none of those things were his responsability.

 

Massa was gifted 14 points yet still managed to get the title. The folks on my list below (plus a bunch more) would have clinched the title with that kind of gift.

=> undeserving

The bad luck of engine failure, hose incident etc happens to everybody. Bad luck/good luck weigh each other out over a season.

If he hadn't made a bunch of mistakes early in the season, he would have actually won the title. So it all comes down to driver failure.

 

That plus the points he was gifted at the Japanese GP when they penalized an innocent driver so Massa could get a couple more points. It was a silly ruling about how to exit the pits. Totally unjustified with the sole purpose of bolstering Massa's points count.

 

Yes, but I was talking about a "what if" scenario where those things didn´t happen and you said that even then it was undeserved.

Or maybe it´s that we´re talking about different things.

 

Also people forget the fact that a race who was "fixed" where the winning team cheated and tempered with the result of that reace was incredibly admissible ihn order to etermine the final standings!!!
I mean, Singapur was a fraude, it was proven and yeat Renault, got the win, Alonso got the win, and everyone proceeded like it never happened, like if that fraude didn´t had any impact in the Drivers championship!! That race should have been scraped from history, it's as simple as that.
Felipe led many more laps, won more races, had to fight agains a world champion on the same team, had much more mechanical failures and a lot more screw ups from his team, while hamilton had a clear number 2 running alongside, had no mechanical failures and no screw ups from he team, so to me it´s clear who was the best, and by a big margin.

 

Still would like to know where do you get the 14 points?

 

It is a 14 points swing. Meaning that Massa got extra points for the scam at Spa AND Hamilton lost a bunch of points because of it. Plus the extra points from the scandal at Fuji.

All combined amounts to 14 points IIRC.

It wasn't Massa's fault that he got those points, but it felt like real Karma when Hamilton won the title despite these manipulations by the FIA.

It was akin to the relief I felt that Schumacher clinched the title despite the fact that the FIA banned him for several races for a mere technicality.

I CANNOT STAND IT WHEN THE FIA MESSES WITH THE WDC.

 

Still don´t get it...Hamilton went from 1s(10 points) to 3d (6 points) so he "lost" 4 points.
Massa went from 2nd (8) to 1st (10), so he gained 2 points......4+2=6 in my book!!!

Ps :IMO hamilton's penalty was totaly deserved because he clearly cheated, just like he had done in mOnza start 2007.

 

Well, Massa keeps repeating that the Piquetgate made him loose the title but the infamous hose did. **** happens in races.

I´m not going to argue with that. 2008 was Massa´s masterpiece. But I still think he didn´t deserve to win the title because some penalties were not fair and the points table is what it is. Probably not Massa´s fault but these are car races after all.

 

Hummm... well, a quite significant technicality.

But that´s another story.

 

I would agree to that if, and it´s a big "if" a fraudulent race wasn´t taken in a acount to determine the title. Let´s face it, Renaut´s actions changed the course and the result of that race, it´s as simple as that. That race was a fraude and should never be acounted for the final result....hamilton won because of a fraude, it´s as simple as that..it´s not his fault...but neither is Felipe's for not winning it.

 

If the hose incident hadn´t happened, Massa would have won that race or would have finished on the podium anyway, with or without Piquet. The only who took a big advantage of that was Alonso because in Renault knew what was going to happen and pitted accordingly, but Alonso was not in the fight for the title and the rest were in equal conditions.

 

No, not really:

They banned him for several races because his underbody plank had a few cuts too deep. He got those cuts while drifting over the cerrated curbs. Completey unfair and ridiculous to throw the book at him for that.

The reason they did it was because of the alleged launch control and the missing filter in the refueling hose. Neither of which they could prove.

While it may be another case of Al Capone (caught and jailed for tax evasion, not for murder), it really smelled fishy of the FIA trying to keep the championship interesting by giving Hill a huge advantage.

 

Hmm, I don't have a good answer. I think your math is correct. Plus add the two points (IIRC) from Fuji, so it is a total of 8.

For some reason I thought it was more, but that might be my hazy memory.

There I totally disagree:
Hamilton didn't cheat at all. In fact he gave the position back and then some. The McLaren team asked the stewards twice and they confirmed twice that they were ok with him giving back the position.

 

Yes it was the 2008 Japanese Grand Prix he was 6th on the road, but received a 25-second penalty for causing an avoidable accident with Felipe Massa dropping him to 10th. Few agreed with the decision – ITV's Martin Brundle had stated during live TV coverage of the race that he felt Massa might receive a penalty, whilst his colleague James Allen states that 99% of experts he spoke to felt that Bourdais did not deserve a penalty; the FIA were under such public scrutiny at the time following a string of controversial decisions that they made the unprecedented step of releasing publicly "stewards only" footage of the incident, to justify the decision.

However I screen shot it: here we have Massa on the outside, Bourdais hugging the kerb coming out of pit lane, they approach a right hand bend holding station, as they approach the apex of the corner, Massa turns in on Bourdais (still hugging the line), result Massa gets away with it they penalize Bourdais, a total and utter load of bolloxs FIA fixing again.
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You have seriously lost the plot mate, if you think Hamilton cheated, below is all you need to know.

Hamilton won against all the odds of the FIA stacked against him, clearly a driver that is in another class.
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More proof, as if we needed any, that nothing in F1 is ever resolved.

 

Here we have Massa using the pit lane to overtake : no penalty issued.

Also the moment before he T boned Hamilton sending him to the back of the field : No penalty

Tell me when you have enough, however do not tell me Massa should have won that year.
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I have tons of it

The only proof needed is Mosley was a complete and corrupt race fixing a$$hat, from word go.
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Anyone remembers this?

Massa and Alonso Fight - YouTube

Massa sucks. End.

 

Mostly agree.

But there were lots of fishy things in Schumacher´s season. The missing filter was not fishy, it was blatantly stinky, and let´s also not forget that he was officially warned to not piss off anymore after that stuff of the overtaking in the warm-up lap, so like they say in UK, when it rains it pours.

 

Wow, never heard that story. Good one.

Then of course there is the more sinister side to Mad Max: He has some of Ratzenberger's blood on his hands.

 

I'm surprised that story's been around for a long while.

Back then such things were considered a colorful part of the sport and not viewed as negatively as they are now.
Money changes everything.

 

Please dont ruin this thread with facts or statistics!