Of course, you had to replace your accumulator because it was leaking, but the real "problem" that causes warm restart trouble is the system fuel pressure quickly falling to zero after warm shutoff, and this has three possible causes: 1. bad accumulator 2. bad check valve at fuel pump outlet 3. bad seal inside the K-Jet fuel distributor pressure regulator section ("Leaky" CIS fuel injectors can't be a source of this trouble as the slits inside the fuel distributor are fully closed by the plunger at warm shut-off.) IMO, you should measure the system fuel pressure after warm shut-off to really confirm that this is the cause of the warm restart problem - if so, I'd say #2 is the next most likely suspect to address (personally, I'd do some tests to determine whether it was #2 or #3, but this takes fiddling with the plumbing which can be more time hassle than just replacing the fuel pump check valve ).
Bosch If you have the later style fuel pump with the replaceable check valve do a search on the F PN 120098 for threads with the Bosch PN information. If you have an early style pump with the built-in check valve, the good news is that those style pumps are now available again, the bad news is more $s.
Not sure where you live David, but if you live in Europe.. I got mine from here together with my accumulator. Reparatieset, brandstofpomp 1 587 010 532 van BOSCH - Steve I really appreciate all the replies Ok. So only number 3 is left as I replaced my check valve today. No improvement. After shutdown and immidiate start it takes 3 to 4 seconds to start. It gets worse when you wait for 15min. I was in the understanding that leaking injectors could cause the pressure to drop down too, which to me was a reasonable explaination. My checkpoints and actions taken: 1. I had two vacuum leaks. Intake manifold sealing was leaking and the old rubber sealings of the airhouse. 2. Replaced all the injector shoe seals. 3. Replaced all the vacuum hoses. 4. Replaced Accumulator and check valve. (before that I passed step 5 and 6 also) 5. Unplugged the safety switch on the airflow meter, turned key "on" (Pos II) and confirmed that the fuel pump is running. 6. Turning key to Pos III (start) and it start after 3 to 4 sec. Not sure if it is wise to revise the fuel distributor with a rebuild kit, but it almost remains the only thing not revised or renewed on this Mondial
I repeat: "IMO, you should measure the system fuel pressure after warm shut-off to really confirm that this is the cause of the warm restart problem" before throwing more parts at it.
I read you I will need to ask my specialist to do this as I do not have the equipment myself to do so. To be continued for now.
Found some interesting info: Note: example is 1988.5 328, but this is applicable to 328 series, 308QV, Mondial QV/Mondial 3.2, and possibly the early injected 308s. Ferrari 328 CIS Fuel Pressure Check http://ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_docs/Ferrari%20328%20CIS%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Check%20with%20Pixs.pdf
So with my car appearing to have a hot start problem ie..it cranks etc and the engine catches after 4-5 seconds of crank. I will work thru this tread and eliminate systematically. My question is - has anyone attempted to put a permanent FP gauge in the line for easy reference.
Nope, not me (yet). I just replaced all my injectors and I have a shorter start now, but it still cranks for 4 to 6 sec after driving. I'm planning to do a fuel pressure check in the upcoming 4 weeks. It wasn't worth to test the injectors for leakage since adding 60,- euro on top of the testing price I just replaced them all.
does it run any better and how much did you pay for the injector nozzles. I agree the indicative check is to do fuel pressure check at the distributor. I would love to b able to fit a gauge in at the fuel distributor for quick reference To do my pressure check I need to buy the test kit for K-jetronic but if I am going to own this car for awhile I will need to purchase it so I might as well bite the bullet
30 euro per injector. (cleaning and testing was about 20 euro per injector) New injector: Einspritzventil 113975, 000 078 40 23, 000 078 56 23, 77 00 267 040 (Angebot-ID: 45469671) | TEILeHABER You do not have to use the test kit of Bosch. Carl Rose used for example a Star Products TU-447 for a pressure check. As long as the unions fit it should be ok http://www.ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_docs/Ferrari%20328%20CIS%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Check%20with%20Pixs.pdf Today we ran a CO test and it seems that one bank is to rich. On bank was giving CO=13 and the other CO=9
Coupla good tips...thanx for that I am going to look for an adapter so I can permanently mount a gauge in the engine bay
Ok.. First of all I like to point out Steve's comment to do a fuel pressure check in case of a (hot) starting issue! I had many failures. some of then directly noticable. 1. Bad accumulator (was leaking) --> New accumulator 2. At least 2 injectors were poor. --> 8 new injectors 3. False air at one of the the intake manifold and airhouse --> New gaskets This resulted already in better idling and a better start but it still had warm start issues. However, sometimes I smelled a fume of fuel, but could not locate it. so we finally did a fuel pressure check and it didn't keep pressure. Since my fuel tank was not very clean when the fuel came out replacing my accumulator I wanted to clean out my WUR this day and my eye gaught a small leak at the Union(s) of the WUR when I got my hands on it I took it off and cleaned and behind the valve of the WUR it had some dirt in it. I also noticed that the valve was a bit worn out (together with the dirt it works like sandpaper). So I turned the valva around. I guess this keep it going for a while, but enventually it needs a new valve. Not easy to get parts since Bosch's statement is that a WUR is not rebuildable. How to rebuild your WUR: http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=699981 I now need to get some new kopper o-rings for the unions and let's see if this will be the end of the hot start issue.
fascinating read indeed once read it definitely appears that you are on a hot lead for sure. Please let us know what transpires as I watch this thread with interest. My car starts off the key with 2 or cranks when cold but when hot it can be a bugger and takes 4+ seconds which cant be right. I have not even looked at installing a guage in the engine bay permanently yet so read your findings and hold my breath.
Ok some results on this on. I still have a hotstarting issue, but my feeling, it picks up sooner. I will need to do a fuel pressure test again. Since this is not my tool, but from a garage I am dependent on when my friend brings it along again.
This is all interesting conversation. I wonder, is there anyone around that remembers what these cars were like when new? Did they start with a simple bump of the key regardless of conditions? My car, when I considered it to have a hot start issue, would crank with no start at all. I could do multiple 10 second intervals or longer and no start. Ultimately it would barely catch and stumble for a few seconds before smoothing out or dying. I replaced the accumulator and developed the habit of always letting the car idle for 10 seconds or so before shutting it off when I would leave it for a short time. I don't recall if these really made any difference as I did a rather complete service shortly after this. At this point I don't think it ever cranks for more than a second or two before always starting. But I've certainly got used to it's character so might simply be used to whatever it does.
hehe charm of oldtimers! 1 to 2 seconds is acceptable.. for me at least, but I'm afraid mine takes a bit more time. Besides that I like the challenge I have people around me with Mondials and 328s that start in almost an instance with a hot engine or after letting it sit for 5 to 10min so there is definately something preventing in doing this with my Mondial.
Tijn, what was the final fix for your hot start problem? And did you accurately source the "fuel smell" as well"?
Late Echo It was partially the fix to the hot starting problem. The carbon pin of one distributor was broken and I fixed that as well. After that there was no issue anymore. However the fuel smell was still there. I replaced all my rubber fuel hoses and then this was gone too. They 3 hoses had cracks and I think when the pressure was building up it escaped partially from the cracks especially on hot days or after a long drive when the back was warm due to engine heat. Thanks Sean!
THREE fuel hoses with cracks? I'm surprised your car didn't ignite! Given this good fortune and the fact that it's Sunday, maybe a trip to church is in order ...
I have this same issue. I purchased a fuel accumulator at which I have not had the chance to install yet as my interior is all out of my Mondi for another few weeks. I hope it's the accumulator.
Can you check the injectors with a resistance tester? I know you can on other cars. What should the reading be?
It was the return line from the fuel flap and the return line between the tanks. Fume alon e cannot ignite a car. The 3rd was the line to the pump. It was not leaking else I would have seen, but once got it off it was in bad shape and you need to bend it in several shapes to get it off while the line feels like solid rock. I think at that point the severe cracks occurred. I can tell you that I was not comfortable in my seat while driving when there is such a fume once and a while. I'm still walking on this planet and not rocketed off to Mars. So maybe a trip is good, but being an atheist I will enjoy the great craftsmanship of the people who build it. Either way it will ease your mind They are mechanical and in IMHO you throw away money by letting them tested for 15/20 USD each as you have new ones for 30 bucks. Since they are mechanical they will wear out at some point. my opinion is that one should simply replace them after 30 years and enjoy the new ones A fellow member with a 328 was always reluctant replacing them as his ride was performing good. At one point he did and mentioned it was a totally different experience when hitting throttle after placing the new ones. Jaw breaking if you think of it, but it's the true magic of a good injector spray. This engine is a beast with the right components and I remember we had a discussion on a Mondial that was for sale with a build in XDI and electronic injectors. I see the potential when doing such, but then the transmission cannot catch up I think. There is a reason why mostly Ts are used when wanting to do some track racing. Anyway spend your money on new ones rather then testing unless the test is for free or doesn't cost more then 40 bucks in total.
I had a Nissan Maxima and it ran rough. I took a volt meter and put it n the injector. They are suppose to read 15 and four of them read 13 I replaced those 4 and bingo car ran great. So will this work to test the injectors on the Ferrari engine? I do not see a difference in how you would test them. I just don't know what the good ones should read.
