The most overrated driver ever in F1?

Yes, I remember that as well. And let alone not winning the title, they got only one victory out of it. In fact, between 1991 and uptill and including 1995, Ferrari scored only two victories, whereas Schumacher scored three in his first season.

 

Afraid, not. I think long term Nico will have the upper hand.

 

Ugh, not this 'Schumacher sucks' crap again.


Say what, Nico and Hamilton? Neither are beating each other, and the first to admit that would be themselves. Hamilton has never had his qualifying pace taken to him the way Nico has.

Read the stats for yourself:

Average start position Lewis: 3.25 Nico 4
Average finish Lewis 4.87 Nico 5.08
race performance Lewis 82% Nico 85.38% (calculated on how many passes for position)
completed races Lewis 15 Nico 13


The numbers are based on the amount of races finished, if a race is not finished then the score is zero. With two incomplete races from Nico and a podium Lewis NEVER deserved (his words, not mine) I would hardly say either has 'beaten' the other.

Any competent F1 driver or enthusiast would say Nico vs Schu circa the second half of 2011 and all of 2012 was a complete draw. That's what the 'experts' all say regularly, especially now that Nico has another benchmark. Yes, Nico is very good and 'comeback' Schu brought it to him, not my words but rather David Coulthard's. Go tell him he's wrong.

 

Apparently after driving the new V10, which the engineers were quite proud of, MS was not impressed relative to that V12 in the earlier car.

As far as Alesi goes...I think he was very, very good. Just made the wrong move. It took a driver of Schumacher-esque talent and work ethic to rescue Ferrari. I'm not sure anyone else could have done it. Alesi had the natural talent in spades but lacked in some other departments.

That said, I fully believe he would be a multi WDC had he gone to Williams rather than Ferrari.

 

I don't. Because:

I loved Alesi and always was a big fan but he was a one hit wonder. When you have done so many GPs and just one victory to show for then you're out of excuses.

As I stated earlier: Part of becoming a WDC is picking the right team/car. Picking constantly the wrong team is as you say "lacking in some other departments".

 

I think he would have won the 96/97 titles. Just IMO.

 

Sponsors and the board like to hear those sorts of things

 

I agree with you that he would have probably won the WDC in an unbeatable car like the one Mansell won his title with.

However first you have to land a drive like that. And this is precisely where the Vettel haters loose the plot. Where was RB before Seb joined them? One of many midfield teams.

And before somebody plays the Newey card: Lets not forget all the average cars Newey built. Going to RB was the right move and hindsight is 20/20. But Seb saw all that before anybody else.

As you said:

 

Didn't he have a Williams offer but chose Ferrari? I swear I've heard that somewhere

 

I don't recall, but that's neither here nor there. He certainly was highly valued at the time and suffered from a severe case of the red mist. Very possible he had an offer on the table and foolishly dismissed it.

Alesi was a great driver but no Schumacher. So he couldn't pull off what MS did and rebuild the team. He needed a good car and the rest is history.

 

Agreed. furoni on the boards will be very upset with us though lol. The guy loves Alesi

 

Seb landed in a great car.

They were midfield before with the old regs, but with a regulations shake up and Newey, all bets were off. Yes, he obviously brought an extra edge of competitiveness to the team through his unreal natural ability, but it's not the same as what MS did. That would be like leaving Red Bull now and going to Williams and bringing them back.

 

I love Alesi too. In fact I have one of his gloves signed by him. A highly priced possession in my collection.

I only wish I could get one of his wine bottles. One day...

But loving a driver and seeing the guy for what he is are two different things. And they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

You know how I feel about MS but I'd be foolish not to admit that he is the greatest F1 driver of all times. It all comes down to points and WDCs.

 

I didn't say that.

MS accomplishment/work was bigger, no doubt. That Ferrari team was a crap shot when he joined it.

My point is that Seb didn't land in a made bed and just drove it home. He saw what RB is capable of and joined them BEFORE they ever even won a single race. That takes balls and foresight. And he became an integral part of the team further developing the strengths of the car. Year after year. And not doing a stupid move. Consistently delivering.

IMHO I'm stating the obvious but for some on here (not you) that still doesn't seem so obvious.

 

Newey has been responsible for a lot more championship winners then dogs. So yes, I'm pulling the Newey card. Vettel had nowhere else to go.

 

Vettel was accepted into the Red Bull junior driver program at age 11, though. His natural progression was the senior Red Bull team. I don't think there were other options on the table like McLaren, Ferrari or Renault. His destination was predetermined. I don't think that takes balls, that's where he was heading regardless.

Agree 100%

 

No doubt it was the natural progression for him.

But:

Scott Speed/Alguersuari/Bourdais and many others were on exactly the same path.

I rest my case.

 

I think Nico has been brilliant this season, but he's also been with the team for a while. Remember that the cars this season are fairly similar to the ones driven last year.

I think long term (i.e. starting next year) I expect Hamilton to become the clear leader on the team, after the reset button is hit in 2014.

 

It’s a widely-held belief that Adrian does his best work whenever F1 undergoes one of its periodic regulatory upheavals, moving development away from number crunching and briefly allowing creativity and intuition to come back to the fore. 2009 demonstrated that in ample measure: Red Bull Racing’s breakthrough season had Adrian’s RB5 taking five pole positions and score six victories.

NOTE: I would not bet against RBR next year, after F1 undergoes another of its periodic regulatory upheavals...

 

Perhaps the most overrated driver in F1 this year is Mark Webber. I really like the guy but maybe he is past his peak, nowhere near his teammate really.

 

I think Ham doesn't work well within a team and will fade.

 

Disagree. I don't especially like him but he is lightning fast and great in overtaking. If he would just shut up and drive more would be in his camp.

 

Perfectly expressed.

 

I think it was pretty remarkable to hop from an F1 car into an Indycar and win another championship in a style of racing and on tracks he was totally unfamiliar with. While both cars were topnotch equipment, his adaptation was quick and convincing, and it's interesting that in his Indycar championship year, he was actually better on the ovals than on the road courses! A near-miss in the Indy 500 just added to a remarkable year.

And then, a year later, to return to Williams as an "interim" driver and go out and win another Grand Prix? Also quite remarkable.

 

Someone who probably needs to be mentioned here is Andrea de Cesaris. He wasn't nicknamed "de Crasheris" for nothing. He was generally a quick driver, but for some reason or another, he seemed to shunt a ridiculous number of cars. And yet, he lasted for some 15 seasons, and holds the record for most GP starts without a victory (208).