The most overrated driver ever in F1?

Mansell? On the basis of speed, bravery, and race wins he is not overrated. On the basis of bad luck/stupidity/being a drama queen/ being his own worst enemy, which resulted in three lost WDC titles ('86, '87, and '91), perhaps he is. But as Patrese had stated in interviews years after that '92 season, Mansell's blind faith in the active-suspension going into a corner, despite its tendency to numb the "feel" or physical feedback that racing drivers rely upon, made him a second a lap faster than Patrese throughout the entire year. So even if he had the best car, he destroyed his teammate. One who was very often a match the prior year.

Vettel has suffered the same criticism for the last four years, but what is his head-to-head qualifying record against Webber since '09? Maybe Webber has had more bad luck in races, but he clearly isn't as fast as Vettel. Don't forget that Vettel won his first race from pole in the rain at Monza IN A TORO ROSSO. He just clinched his fourth title in India after being P16 to start lap 3. It wasn't like everyone in front of him just waved him by. An article in Autosport earlier this year analyzed the driving styles of Vettel, Alonso, and Hamilton based on telemetry data. Yes, Adrian Newey has managed to evolve the blown-diffuser in spite of constant rule changes to outlaw it. But open throttle and the resulting exhaust gases are necessary to exploit the blown-diffuser concept. Vettel basically throws the car into ao corner sideways so that it's pointed where he wants, and when the car gets to the apex, regardless of whether the car is settled, he stands on the gas, trusting that Newey's design will provide the necessary grip. He has adapted his driving style to exploit the maximum from a given design in spite of the counter-intuitive nature relative to what he learned throughout the lower formulae. That is the hallmark of a truly great driver. By contrast his teammate has not adapted.....

As for Alesi, I have always been a huge fan, but he was by far the most overrated driver of the last 20 years. Prost showed him a clean pair of heels in '91 at Ferrari. When Nakajima was his teammate at Tyrrell, he was maybe a few tenths quicker in qualifying. By contrast, Senna averaged nearly two seconds quicker than Nakajima in qualifying when they were at Lotus. And of course, Alesi only won one race, and that was because Schuey DNF'd. His whole reputation was built on that brief battle with Senna at Phoenix in '90.

Hill and Villenueve (Jrs) weren't really overrated because they achieved what was expected given the equipment at their disposal. On the other hand, Alesi never lived up to the huge amount of praise heaped at him which, as his statistics against Prost, Berger, and even Nakajima highlight, was unwarranted.

EDIT: Two guys not far behind Alesi were Trulli and Fisichella. Coincidentally, both were comprehensively dominated by the same teammate who won two titles and ended the Ferrari/Scumacher dynasty. Yet some here consider that particular teammate overrated.

 

At the moment it's Pastor Maldonado.










Damon Hill vs Schumie had some epic battles in the 90's surely you guys that think he is overrated were sleeping when Damo was racing.

 

Hill had a car advantage that meant he should have walked the titles, schumi on the other hand had the skill, determination and speed to win despite th shortcomings of the Benetton. Hill consistently had aggro from coulthard and villenuve, enough said

 

He wasn't overrated. Nobody thought highly of him.

He simply came with too much pasta money.

 

In general I don't think any of the WDCs are over hyped. Because they all achieved the ultimate goal. To some degree that could even be said about the race winners.

To fit that definition it has to be a driver who got super kudos (at first) in the press and then went on to deliver absolutely nothing, gets thrown out and is long forgotten.

Speed and the non-Mario Andrettis fit in here nicely.

 

Am not a betting man which is a great shame on this occasion..we will have to revisit this

 

Case of beer he won't.

 

Speed was in a Toro Rosso...other than Vettel who's driven that car successfully? Also, while matched up with Luizzi, he was neck in neck, while I won't argue he was great and signed with the wrong team, I don't think he was rubbish either. WC, no, but a competent driver. An American version of Button.

 

I wouldn't say Button, he wasn't THAT good, but he was a lot better than he gets credit for.

Seems to me a lot of people wanted him to fail. Media and management. American drivers have a tough stigma to break through...

 

^^^ Careful Igor, Andreas wins these types of bet... I should know!

All the best,
Andrew.

 

NO kidding. He's got another one heading his way from me for this year

 

Ugh, not the whole raining at Monza win for Seb. It's Monza for crying out loud, where aero really doesn't matter and the entire field is separated by a knife edge 1 second, and in the rain which mixes things up even more. It wasn't Monaco or Spain or Spa in the rain, it was a race in the rain where with the right setup anyone could have won.

2011 Canada Schu was passing everyone hands down in the rain and was well on his way to winning that race, until it stopped raining and the red bull got its grip back. That's a true rain master.

 

That was a win MS had robbed by the FIA insisting that the cars drive around behind the safety car for 30 laps when it was merely wet.

 

Funny comment of the week.

Monza is the fastest track on the calendar.

 

Respect is due..

 

Right. Low aero requirements. No one is running aero other than. Dry minimal. Anyone can win in the rain there. All bets are off at a track where aero doesn't matter in the rain.

 

Keep in mind he had probably the best test driver there ever was as a teammate setting up his car for him on ovals. Oval track racing is all about getting the car set up right. Once Mario got tired of his crap, Nigel never won another Indycar race. Also, the sanctioning body tended to react to every little complaint Nigel had with a re-write or clarification of the rules. He always used to whine about getting jumped on rolling starts but the truth is he never really got the concept. While impressive indeed, he had a few factors in his favor until he pissed everyone off.

 

That was when he had a useless BAR under him.
By the time he came to Sauber, he had also lost motivation.

But Villeneuve was a revelation when he arrived in F1.

If I remember correctly, he was on pole at his first GP, which he finished second.
He won the next GP, and was a challenger to team mate Damon Hill until the end of the season. Raw talent as I see it.

The next year he was WDC!

Pollock formed a new team around him, and just as it was for Emerson Fittipaldi years ago, that was the end of JV's brilliant career. That was the wrong move.

 

+1

Villeneuve gets a bad rap around here, but he rocked when he came to F1 and got his title.

Thereafter he went downhill, but many F1 greats have stayed beyond their zenith and made a mockery of themselves <cough, cough>.

 

LOL here take some of this
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Exactly right!!! AND...he'd have won that first race from pole IF the car hadn't had mechanical problems that forced him to slow at the end.

 

We normally settle these bets with coupons for Binnys, so your Gin is fair game.

I accept the bet.

PS: I love your Da Vinci code picture just recently I was at Westminster Abbey with my Cryptex in hand

 

Alesi had a contract with WIlliams , signed sealed & delivered....and then Ferrari came calling

Williams let him go - which is why there is a single Ferrari F1 car in the Williams museum (and I think there might have been some cash involved too! )

Alesi was extremely fast but as I understand it, not terribly good at developing or setting a car up - he would just drive around problems - which is OK up to a point , but ultimately a bit limiting!