Why does it seem like Vettel is not getting the recognition that he deserves? SPOILER

To be honest I always rated Nico a good driver, just seemed to lack some consistency, but IMO he has improved in that area as well.

A Great paring him and Ham.

IMO There is not alot between all the top 10 drivers really, right day right car right setup for them, they all can shine.

 

Very true. At Merc there have been weekends where Ham can't touch Nico and vice versa. They are a strong pair.

 

Doesn't anyone remember Vettel was creamed by Hamilton and others in Formula 3 in 2005? And by DI Resta who was Vettel's teammate in 2006? Di Resta BEAT him. Vettel was only pulled into F1 so early because it was a German team who wanted him, BMW, back in 2005. Then he was their test driver in 2006, there were MANY better drivers to pick from, but the GERMAN team wanted the best GERMAN driver and he was it. End of story really. Vettel wasn't God's gift to racing, there were many others, rather Vettel was God's gift to Germany and a Germany team wanted to take advantage of that. Hamilton and others rode Vettel bare back pre-F1 though, Vettel was good but not on their level, not even close.

 

So based on that 2005 season, is it your belief that Red Bull would be more successful if they ditched Seb for DiResta??

 

I'm saying it doesn't matter who they picked and proving there were better candidates. Anyone clean and reasonably fast could wipe the field in the bull.

 

Webber is clean and reasonably fast. Why isn't he wiping the rest of the field behind Seb (on the days when his car doesn't catch fire I mean )

Honestly, I can't imagine any of those guys (except maybe Hami) would be doing a better job than Seb right now based on those performances. People develop and grow. Some more than others. Example: Wasn't Schumacher beaten by HH Frentzen in his junior days?

EDIT: It was Wendlinger who won the German F3 title that year. Schumi and the rug salesman were tied for 2nd with identical points. Neither one was fit to carry Michael's jock strap in F1.

 

Webber hasn't been clean since 2010 when he should have won the title. Seb won that one pretty much by a default scenario. He hadn't lead the WDC all year, Webber and Alonso were stuck behind that idiot Petrov who just had a top speed advantage on the straight, hence Vettel gets hand-delivered title.

I don't think Ham or anyone else could do any better than Vettel has been really, his car has made his WDC and WCC a walk in the park.

Schu had plenty besides F3 stuff going for him prior to F1, and his first F1 pay drive at Spa after he had been a very good sports car driver for Benz proved that, guy was amazing. Vettel was just Germany's top young driver and they had to have someone to root for since Schu was on his way out, that's what gave birth to Vettel, Schu leaving and leaving a gigantic hole in the German market. Seb was the band-a-d, remember all the German articles calling him 'baby Schu'. They absolutely needed something now that Schu was leaving, Schu was just too big and F1 didn't want to lose a portion of that audience

 

I mean, if you think about and look at it, *the* top young driver pre-F1 of this generation is Lewis Hamilton. He's won bloody everything, and his teammate then was Nico Rosberg! Between the two of them, they destroyed every class but especially Lewis.

 

Well, no sense flogging the horse. Time will tell which one of us is right when the RB era of domination ends and Seb is in an inferior car. I promise not to bombard you with "I told you so's" when that happens.

 

A driver is not able to evolve during his years? IMO Vettel had some maturing to do when he came in to F1, and he's a completely different driver now than in 2010.

The year before Vettel equally crushed Di Resta. Almost double the points. Both Rookies. Vettel was rookie of the year. In 06 Vettel did, along with his F3 schedule, a couple of F3.5 weekends and a full season of F1 testing. Even Mario Thiessen has said he likely pushed Vettel too far. Di Resta did just F3 and no other races.

''absolutely crushed'' By PdR? 11 points is absolutely crushed? Over 20 races? Vettel is one the very few who has managed a double win in a weekend (quite impressive with reverse grid and all). A feat that was only done once afterwards in the same format.


Hey, I bet you this kid beat Hamilton this one time in karting when they where like 6, he crushed Lewis man, beat him by like a second. Perhaps we should pull him out of his accounting job and put him in the 2nd Merc. Hellooooo WCC!

I can't believe a 4x WDC still has doubters.

 

Says it all hey.

I don't buy that Webber hasn't been good since 2010. He's been fast, qualified close to Vettel or outqualified him plenty since 2010.

Average starting positions:
Vettel Webber Gap
2010 2 2.5 .050
2011 1.26 3.78 .414
2012 5.05 5.85 .110

Don't have data for this year. Only in 2011's extremely dominant Vettel was clearly ahead.

 

Something about denial and river in Egypt LOL! It is rather sad to read the weak rationalizations in the face of the facts about Vettel.
Fact 4 WDC's. He beat Webber who is well respected and made the car work for him as well as the team. That is sound strategic driving and work ethic on display. If this was done by Vettel in a Ferrari the outpouring of praise would be flowing over here.

 

Bas I'm definitely not doubting his skill as a fabulous driver, he's just not the best driver on the grid. His car has provided his WDCs and his first WDC was by default. That was Webber's title and he lead it all year and Webber hasn't been the same since.

 

which is his own weakness

 

Sad but true

 

A Worthy Champion - Pitpass.com

Nice article.

 

But this fair comparison clearly says it never was Webber's:

http://f1stats.blog.com/2011/09/18/case-the-2010-championship-without-misfortune/


He was only in the lead because of Vettel's earlier failures.

To be fair to Vettel, when has the best car NOT won the title? I'd say 2008 (even with the controversial Hamilton spa penalty, Massa would've won by 15 points), 2005 (Kimi had a lot of failures). Haven't dug further than 1999 yet.

 

The media LOVES the guy.

It's the fans that don't.

 

I have not read the whole thread because you are turning cycles but this sentence is one one side true but to funny in this context

Certainly Vettel wins because he is driving a very competitive car, as this is always a good starting point. Even the great Fangio was always driving the best car in the field and not a backmarker. But here you are asking Vettel to proove something that Alonso is failing for the last years but still Alonso is said to be the best ??? If you want to follow this logic Vettel has not proven by now that he might be the best driver but Alonso proved he is not ;-)
It is funny how some here rate Alonso the best driver because he is driving for Ferrari but on the other side they say he does not win just because of Ferrari...
The question who is the best driver will never be answered until all drivers are driving the same car and even then there will be politics...

Multi21: Certainly he did not do himself a favour with this overtaking (especially as we know now that it was completely unnecessary) but egoism is one of the most important characteristics for a successful driver (Schumacher and Senna are good examples). It is funny how especially Senna is pedestalled for his character today although he was as egoistic as Schumacher and certainly more than Vettel...
Just remember Suzuka 1990, Senna did much more than Schumacher did in Jerez in 1997 but he is still defended even by Ferrari fans being a great sportsman although this even ruined a WDC for Ferrari and Prost...

Do you mean the fans of Formula 1 or the fanboys of the defeated marques ???

 

Fans of F1. You hear the boos.

 

1994 and 1995 the Williams was undoubtedly a better car than the Benetton. I think 2003 was a very difficult title year for Schumacher as well.....I think it was 2003 anyway. Lots of years where the car was not a total dominating force are out there, the Red Bull just shows up and wins races, it's that fast. A WDC who won say 3-4 races, lots of podiums and was just very consistent and worked hard overall is a real championship IMO.

A driver who walks away winning more than 60% of the races and pole positions in a season doesn't tell me anything other than that his car is amazing.

 

The title challengers were equal in speed in 1999, 2000, 2003, 2007, 2008

The best car lost out on the WDC in 1994, 1995, 2005, 2009

 

Yes, you hear the boos but you do not see who they are. If 90% of them are wearing a red jacket then he does not have to worry about that...And don´t forget he is German...Especially in Europe not everybody is pleased of a German winning at the moment, so the boos might be less against the person but against the domination and maybe the nationality ;-)

 

The boos have been all over the world.