Is Red Bull cheating?

I don't understand your reasoning here, it's the other way round and pretty simple: Because they are so confident in Vettel, they can afford to hire a promising young driver even with the major changes ahead.

Kimi is a driver on his way out. He's getting old, and his past isn't exactly spotless, see 2008 and 2009. He is as much a risk as Ricciardo, but Ricciardo has a future.

I absolutely fail to understand the idea of RB wanting to see Vettel win and no one else, of them even sabotaging Webber for that reason. Why would they???

 

I'd bet that "minimum tweaking" is a bizarre amount of work!

 

Thanks. That's the long version of "Monza 2008".

But it makes no difference: Those who choose to ignore Seb's talent won't see it even if he wins the next 10 Championships in a row.

For the rest of us, there is an easy way to measure talent:

WDC points and WDCs won

 

I am of the opinion that Riccardo got Webbers seat because of vettel. Vettel is the first(only for that matter) rb junior to come through the lower team into the big team and obviously has been successful. Going with Kimi(although I wished for it) would have undermined the entire program despite its success.

 

That means Senna was worse than mansell and others. And Schumacher was worse than Hill and others in the 90s when Schu was in his ultimate prime. Points are a crock a lot of the time and you know it.

 

Hard to say.

Until Abu Dhabi I thought IVETTEL and Alonso were on par, but Alonso did poorly in qualifying (outdriven by his useless teammate) and Seb was on a different planet the whole race long.

In fact I'm starting to think what IVETTEL did in Abu Dhabi might have been his real pace in many of the previous races but the team was sand bagging and/or trying to protect the car/engine etc. Or maybe even Bernie asked them not to make it too obvious that they are totally and absolutely dominating this season and had it in the bag since the spring.

Ultimately it matters little what any of us think. The history books already show IVETTEL as the 4 time champion that he is. Whereas Alonso "only" has two titles to his name. How many remember the name Prost and how many Hakkinen?

PS: While we're at it, it's about time I post this shot.
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They're going to have to rely on Vettel to be the big points winner all the time becuase they simply don't know how their noob is going to perform at the front. That is a massive gamble for such an important year with two top teams with two stellar drivers running in formation around the track when possible. Vettel will be solo Mia unless Ricci really surprises us.

 

2014 will settle this, IMO.

I might add that Vettel was outqualified by Webber for the 2nd time in 3 races...

 

Cheater or outsmarted?

Much like the DDD, it was a grey area.

They have changed the tests, many times in fact, all against red bull. Added more weight, changed location of the weight... Yet they passed.

 

Red Bull isn't cheating unless the FIA punishes them.

 

<cough> illegal MB tire test <cough>

The FIA isn't the measuring stick for cheating. They're merely an indicator.

 

The only stick here is the one you're beating that dead horse with!

 

I don't like Kid Index, but I don't see them violating the rules.

Everything just came together, and Kid Index--even if I don't like him--is a hell of a driver. And a fierce competitor--when he is ahead, he puts the hammer down and steps on the neck of the other drivers. No quarter. I like that.

 

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I heard you were big around here but I never suspected...

 

I guess I should say that it doesn't matter of people think theyre cheating unless another team protests and they actually get punished. MB did get punished, it was a slap on the wrist but at least it was something. Red bull era caught with something illegal and it's just "hey don't do that again or use that at the next race"

 

Well one reason........Webbers car appears to self destruct with great frequency. That being said Seb is a better driver, but Mark has taken pole the last two races if I am not mistaken. At least he is trying to go out with a bang! Would have been nice for him to pull of the 2010 championship if Fred could not.

 

I think it's all in the name...Sebastien...just like this guy who I think is in a class of his own winning 9 world championships in a row Sébastien Loeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and his replacement whose name happens to be...Sebastien Sébastien Ogier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

You assume they have identical cars, and even if they do (which they may not), the car is developed to suit Vettel's style, not Webber's.

 

I agree....I have doubts that Vettle's and Webber's cars are really identical.

 

Never liked Vettel (really want to break his stupid finger sometimes), but can't deny that he is a great driver.

 

All this conspiracy theory stuff is highly entertaining but unlikely. Why can't people just accept that sometimes a driver at the peak of his powers ends up in a car at the peak of its powers and together they blow everyone away? Seems obvious to me... and reluctantly (as I am a true tifoso after all) I appreciate being able to witness the historical events we are seeing.

 

I don't think the FIA gives them any leniency...it doesn't benefit them to have a runaway WDC/WCC winner. I think that very simply, RBR has an experienced designer who's been fiddling with ways to make a car faster for over a quarter of a century. He probably knows of places to look for an advantage that other teams don't even know exist.

 

But what if Red Bull is not only "the dominant team" for FIA but also a very big sponsor, a NEEDED sponsor in this troubled times: right now they are running 2 (TWO) F1 teams: could the show go on without those TWO teams? Besides that, Red Bull is also sponsoring a F1 grand prix, many cars in other championships and is a mayor sponsor in the WRC (some ever say that without that sponsorship the WRC would have collapsed a year ago). Usually FIA try to put an end to long winning streaks by any means, but is more important for FIA to keep the Red Bull happy and his flood of cash steady?

OK, OK, enough, tin foil hat OFF.

 

I tend to and want to believe that this is true, and is the case.

I also think that this ^ is a fair point.

My take on it is simple, Vettel along with Newey and a great team assembled around them have been given the sole prime directive from the head boss man with the cash, to win as many WDCs as possible, with Vettel leading the charge.

It is irrelevant whether Vettel or Newey are responsible for the total domination, because to me, what is clear is that together along with rest of the RB staff the results speak for themselves, and they have done a absolute fantastic job.

I highly doubt they have been cheating, just a case of very clever thinking from Newey and the luxury of highly skilled young driver with apparent good feedback.