Anyone here have any info on the Beech Premier 1?

Well, yeah. If that's your primary concern, a Citation V or one of the Sierra converted S/IIs will do a similar mission yet are single pilot.

And, there are some real advantages to having a second pilot, especially once you start getting into the jets.

 

From what I've seen on insurance quotes, the single pilot jets flown single pilot cost a bunch more to insure. Almost cheap enough to add the second pilot to reduce the cost to insure it.

I'm relatively low time in turbines (150 hours), but over 3000 multi hours, so it may vary for someone with more turbine time.

Art

 

I'll be a passenger in a friend's Premier tomorrow; happy to relay any questions; take photos etc?
(Flying myself to rendezvous at Teterboro with an instructor for hour 12 or 13 of my PPL journey, sorta jazzed about that!)

 

Likewise, I'm test flying an Eclipse tomorrow morning...and checking to see if it will fit in my hangar.

 

That's not my experience. Having a pilot on call will be minimum $60K per year. My single pilot insurance for $4MM-$5MM hull value single pilot is only in the mid $20K per year.

Then you still gotta put the other pilot up in hotels, meals, smell his farts etc. Forget it! Single pilot for life!

 

Says the guy who's never done it...

Depending on the airplane type and your schedule, you may be able to get pilots by the day. In comparison to the other costs of operating a jet, the expenses of a professional pilot are noise.

The advantages are having someone to prep the aircraft, file flight plans, and be a second set of eyes in the cockpit-- plus help with high workload environments and situations.

Simply having another pilot along will make you a better pilot, as you don't want to be sloppy when someone else is watching. I've trained a lot of guys who have been mostly single pilot, and also those who have operated in a crew environment (or a supervised environment like a 135 operation), and you can tell the difference-- the crew guys tend to have much better procedures and care more about the little things.

It's not because they are better, but rather because they have had 1,000 hours of someone looking over their shoulder and telling them to "get back on altitude/heading/centerline"-- to the point where they start to internalize it.

 

I carry $20MM smooth. No choice.

I don't share your optimism on the Premier because it's not upgradeable and all the new jets are more efficient with better avionics.

Have you looked at the Phenom 300? That's just an example where the industry is headed. There's a reason it's $9MM and you can hardly find one to buy.

But like I said before, I think for $1.3MM it's probably worth the gamble.

 

I've never done what? Do you know me? Why do folks always say stuff like this on forums?

I'm not worried about the expense. I'm worried about the logistics. I don't want to manage the guy.

Pilot by the day? So I'm in Vail now and I decide right now I want to go to Vegas in the morning. What shall I do? Start working the phones? The only way it could work into my lifestyle is if they lived with me. I don't have a schedule. I go when I feel like it and it's usually last minute. My trips are never planned. I fly over 300 hours a year. There's just no way.

 

I'd throw offers out on Mustangs if I were you. Just go down the list and tell them where you are. I think you could get one in your price range.

 

There are 27 for sale and they've only been building them since 2008. You can get one in your price range.

 

Sorry, I had the impression from your previous posts that you haven't spent much time in a crew environment.

 

Let me start by saying I fly probably 50% of my flights in a CJ3 as single pilot. Having said that flying as a crew is infinitely safer in my opinion. The SIC doesn't need to be a high time professional pilot. In Jason's case a a single engine, instrument rated pilot that has recieved familiarization training by the PIC is qualified to act as SIC in the eyes of the FAA (your insurance may want more depending on how much they are discounting the premiums). I'll bet you could have kids fresh out of Embry Riddle or UND lined up and willing to fly your 300 hours per year for not much more than room and board. And you can make them do all your menial tasks (reserve rental cars, preflight A/C, file flight plans, check in to hotel rooms, etc.). Hell, it's worth it just to have the ability to nod off for 20 minutes while enroute every once in a while. These guys just want hours. There is significant value to having SIC time in a PC12 to someone working their way up the ladder and trying to build hours. I think the flying single-pilot is a big ego thing. I'm not saying it's about the ego with you specifically Jason, but I know to some degree it is with me.

 

What's "crew environment"?

I have never been paid to fly if that's what you mean. But what does that have to do with choosing to not want a 2 pilot airplane?

 

Once again. It's not expense. It's the logistics. I hire pilot sometimes when I'm flying coast to coast and it's never easy. Hotel, getting them to the other airport so they can fly home, meals, etc. None ever seem to be self sufficient.

Like I said, I'm in the ski resorts now. Maybe I'll leave tonight…. Maybe I'll leave sunday. I don't want to be in charge of managing when the other pilot arrives or if I can even get another pilot. At the same time, I don't want to put this guy up in my house for a week while I ski.

I was inches from buying a CJ3. They were just out of my price range. I would have flown that plane single pilot also.

If I'm going to put up with another pilot, It's when I get a Challenger 300 or bigger.

That said, What do you do with the Embry Riddle kid when you're traveling?

 

I used to be on the other side of that equation all the time. I used to tell the people I flew for to call me when they want to leave, and not to worry about me otherwise (obviously they had to pay my expenses). I got a hotel and a rental car, and did whatever.

What you are asking for is probably less onerous than the life of a typical 135 pilot, where you get maybe an hour's notice. If you can provide 8 hours notice, that's great! Having a known schedule is certainly preferable, but for most charter/corporate pilots, it's not the norm.

It is true that if you want to fly for extended trips you will have a harder time getting someone by the day, but not at all impossible.

I'm just curious: how often do you actually leave on less than a day's notice?

It's an airplane which either requires two crewmembers, or a single pilot airplane where you are flying it in the same way, with two qualified pilots. As opposed to a flight instruction situation.

 

I would say 50% of my flights are less than a days notice. None are ever more than a 3 days notice.

I understand the benefits of having someone manage a bunch of flight stuff for me but….. I file flights plans on the way to the airport on my phone. I usually need my bags with me so sending them ahead to be loaded doesn't do me much good. I guess it would be nice to have someone pull the covers off and have the doors open when I pull up. Weather planning is done in seconds on my phone. The pro's don't seem to outweigh the cons.

I don't mind flying with other pilots. I have many pilot friends. One flew with me on this trip but I'm leaving in morning and heading to the next destination solo. The weather has cleared here. I could leave now but I'm tired so I'll leave in the morning. I just love having the option to go now if I want too.

I would hate to have a plane that can't move without a second pilot. I feel I'd be stuck a lot. Freedom is what having a plane is all about.

 

Put him up in the local Motel 6. He gets $50-100/day per diem for food. He sits by the phone waiting for your call that its time to go (he'll take in the sites, go to the movies, gawk at girls at the local mall, or hangar fly at the local FBO). This isn't a job for a 30 something with a wife and kids at home. It's a guy in his early 20's that will stick with you for a couple years and then move on to a better gig. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

 

Wow. Really? You don't feel bad that they're sitting in a motel 6 in the Rockies for a week while you're skiing? Wouldn't they need a car?

I think I'd feel bad for them. Perhaps I should toughen up.

 

Hopefully you would get them a car. And let them stay at some sort of Marriott or Hilton. Otherwise, no, it's not bad at all. Never bothered me, anyway.

 

Trust me. They will be loving every minute of it. You don't realize how valuable sitting right seat in a PC-12 is to these guys. I did it for several years in my 20's before the wife and kids.

Marriot? Ha! I was happy when they didn't have a Motel 6 in town and I got to stay at the Super 8. As for a rental car it depends on where you're at and how available public transportation is. Aspen or Vail, yes get them a rental car. NYC or San Francisco, a little extra per diem to ride the subway or trollies.

Sorry to hijack the thread, Mark. FWIW, the talks are that Textron is going to be purchasing Beech's turboprop and piston business. Looks like the turbojet line is destined for the boneyard. And you're right, there are many orphaned types out there that still hold their value due to their utility. DeHavillands, Commanders, etc.