Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

What kind of stupid promotional video is that? They didn't even mention the Nurburgring.

>8^P
ER

 

when Ferrari give Laferrari into hands of journalists?

 

Nope. Just the same grainy running video of an entire lap of the circuit with a running clock just like Porsche did. No nonsense, just the truth. Its that simple.

Again, for you to think what has been released thus far is evidence of anything sort of speaks volumes about just how blinded you are regarding that company and that car.

I have a wealth of evidence that I can google in seconds from the Nasa archives to prove their landing, Mclaren has nothing. That's the difference.

If they prove their claim they deserve the plaudits, if they continue this nonsense they deserve the criticism.

 

I can easily find Porsche's ring claim, the same Mclaren.

Ferrari's claim seems to be a great deal harder for people to find any evidence for. However, if they did claim sub 7.00, its only fair they are held to it, just as the other two have been.

 

Vaguely remember hearing something about the LF's lap time but can't remember if it was an official claim? I think if it was Erik would be aware of it and he doesn't seem to be. If they did it's unusual that no one from the press picked up on the claim and reported about it, hard to believe that any pictures or discussion of the "sign" it appeared on seems to be impossible to find now..

 

After watching the P1 video from McLaren and reading the official announcements from McLaren (nothing else) I'm pretty certain they broke 7 minutes. Too many people's reputations would be tarnished if they were lying. Many important and well-respected people stated this was achieved. I'm sure 3rd-party tests in the future will confirm this.

But I also guessing the bottom of the P1 was trashed during their test based on what I see and hear in the edited video. When they went to edit the video to prove they broke 7:00 (which they did I'm sure - even a Nissan GT-R could do 7:08) the noise from the car bottoming out probably ruined the overall experience. That would turn off potential customers, and thus they needed to re-think the presentation. I'm guessing someone will leak this soon, especially when 3rd-party tests show this.

Just a feeling I get after watching the video. Hopefully I'm wrong for the owner's sake.

 

Who of the 'well respected people' was at the ring for their testing that is NOT employed by Mclaren that can state that they witnessed them break 7.00? I have seen various people merely regurgitate Mclaren's claim, nothing more.

Porsche only managed 7.14 at their first attempt and I'm sure if you had footage from a helicopter and cameras filming as they went through corners that 7.14 lap would of appeared blisteringly fast to the eye.

 

Erik,

Do you know where I could find the high resolution version of that picture? I'd like to make it my background on the 27" iMac and need a quality image.

Thanks!

 

Who cares, let's keep it real, the car sucks and that's no aero wizardry. Long live the Porsche/Ferrari antagonism. Mclaren has no history, no structure, no credibility, no cache', no appeal, just a handful of well groomed fanboys who keep repeating the same irrelevant staff on here in the hope of making the company look better. They trying, they failing!

Cue the personal attacks

 

McL said that they achieved the speed needed to break 7 minutes. But this could be explained easily by putting together sector times. For example, let's divide the Ring into just 5 big sectors. On one run they could use the KERS in sectors 1, 3 and 5. And then on another lap, they could use it in Sectors 2 and 4. Perhaps it is impossible to get a full charge and keep the KERS fully operating in each consecutive sector.

The truth is that I don't know whether they can do this or not. But I am now decidedly in the column of 'doubtful' and I now need proof. Before this crap, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Shame on me.

 

These people would not want to tarnish their reputation by something that's easily verified...

McLaren Formula 1 driver and 2009 world champion Jenson Button
Mike Flewitt, Chief Executive Officer of McLaren Automotive
Chris Goodwin, Chief Test Driver for McLaren Automotive

 

Agreed it's possible they did this. But I doubt the KERS was a problem. More likely it was difficult to get a good lap during their short stay, and/or make it look good on film. I believe Porsche spent a lot of time at the Ring with the 918 and several drivers. Too risky in my opinion. If someone got hurt or killed, sales would likely be hurt.

 

So nobody outside the company then, just employees.

 

fwiw when I asked the McLaren engineers about kers, they said it works the entire lap, including the long straight at the end, and can continue lap after lap. They are not having a problem with kers. They did say they were doing heavy kers testing their second time at the ring and are using the ring as their kers benchmark.

 

How big do you need? You can find a 4882x3255 res version on their media site here: McLaren Automotive Media Centre - should fill that behemoth of a monitor you have quite well I'd imagine. Couple of others to choose from as well in similar resolutions.

>8^)
ER

 

How is a 'Ring time easily verified outside of actually driving the car at the 'Ring for a full hot lap? And who does that outside of manufacturers?

How long was it after the debut of the Enzo before Black Falcon brought one to the 'Ring?

No one will drive a P1 at the 'Ring, probably ever, for two reasons:

1) Owners of hypercars generally don't take them there, and

2) McLaren will probably make the owners swear in blood never to take one there.

McLaren can say whatever they want about the P1's performance at the 'Ring, and it will probably be very difficult to prove otherwise for a very long time.

 

And me - don't forget me.

I will promise you the lap was far better than 7:00 and I am not known to lie, I am not being paid to do so and I am not sugar-coating anything based on blind enthusiasm as you continue to suggest.

You are fine to remain in doubt for the rest of your existence - no one that really matters will care. Accusing some very respectable people of lying through the anonymity provided by an internet screen name, when you yourself have no facts to prove that they are, is pretty poor form though.

>8^)
ER

 

That's a Ferrari tactic - McLaren will do nothing of the sort. In fact they would probably do the opposite - encouraging the P1s use at race tracks all around the world. That is in fact why they focused their development on making it the quickest and most capable track car you could buy. Don't take my word for it - speak to a few of the owners.

>8^)
ER

 

McLaren aren't requiring customers to sign any such agreement. They WANT the cars tracked, not tucked away in some bubble.

 

A sub-seven minute time would still almost never be verified. There might be 100 people on the planet who can drive the 'Ring at that pace, and I doubt there will be even one P1 owner among that group. I doubt even more so that any P1 owner would willingly hand over the keys to a racing driver for the sake of verifying something that McLaren has deemed unimportant.

If McLaren don't verify sub-seven minutes at the 'Ring, we'll probably never see it.

 

I used the term "swear in blood" to communicate sarcasm.

 

Were you at the ring for testing personally or are you merely regurgitating what you have been told? I'm going to guess the latter.

Considering some of the ridiculous things you have posted thus far you would hardly be the impartial witness one hopes for anyway. Your agenda is clear.

I haven't made the claim that their car went around the ring under 7 minutes, they have and the burden of proof lays solely on them. So far they have a promotional video and three employees speaking glowingly of their bosses new car.That's poor form.

Not swallowing everything a PR department puts out should be encouraged, but you obviously feel differently.

If they have done it great, it would be an epic accomplishment but until they come up with actual proof they have pretty much what you have, hot air and excuses.

 

Fact: Porsche achieved their lap time and posted in-car video to support it.

Fact: Mclaren claimed a lap time under 7:00 and as of yet has not come forward with supporting evidence other than "yes we did".

Fact: Ferrari, for whatever reason, has chosen to stay out of this game for now.


What can we conclude? Well, the earth is round(ish), we will all die, and not much else. In my personal view, and I'm NOT "anyone that matters" (perhaps we could be a little less condescending?), the burden of proof is firmly with Mclaren.

For years Porsche has given ring lap times for its cars, nothing new here. Ferrari has never quoted ring times for its cars officially (other than the 599XX), choosing instead to use Fiorano as a reference point (and therefore avoiding comparison with other manufacturers), again nothing new. What is new to this game is Mclaren. They very openly made some fairly specific claims. They then took a moral high ground approach to not post ring times. Now they claim to have met their goals with a slick video production and not much more than their word. To me it seems arrogant.

All three cars are fascinating and brutally fast. Which one is fastest? Only those that eventually own all three would be able to knowingly comment. Even then, one car can favour a certain individual's driving style more than another.

At least this all makes for interesting reading.

 

ginge82 - I already said I was not there and that my knowledge of the lap time comes from an impeccable source. If that's not enough for you, that remains your problem and you can babble on about it until you are blue in the face.

= = = = =

Finally a reasonable reply - thank you timothymoffat.

And I fully agree on the 'arrogant' claim - the kind you get when you are confident in your position and want the world to know it.

>8^)
ER

 

If McLaren wanted to world to know anything, they just would go ahead and tell the world. Confident and clueless aren't the same things.