Obsolete Nascars

I work with several drivers who campaign Cup and Nationwide cars at VIR, Road America, Road Atlanta and other tracks. They are VERY quick and a LOT of fun! Proper motors are the not inexpensive and the cars should be looked after by someone that knows them.

 

Peter, I have always Ben concerned that, driven with real pace, these things will use brakes and tires very quickly. Has that been your experience? Also do they fade brakes at more technical venues with lots of brake zones and shorter straights?

 

No offense. Most Viper owners can't drive. I have even wadded one up

 

No, Keith. The cars that my clients drive are professionally maintained by ex-Roush, ex-Pratt & Miller Trans-Am mechanics at MMR Racing in Livonia, Michigan and they are top-notch. They have Brembo brakes, IIRC.

While they do burn through some tires, brake wear and fade have not been an issue. That said, I haven't worked with people at smaller, tighter tracks like Gingerman, CMP and Summit.

On the big stuff (Road America, Road Atlanta and even Sebring (the latter a medium-high braking demand track)), they are pretty good! You have to be a throttle-artist to get the best out of them, though. <grin>

 

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I've driven a few, and it can be done reasonably cost wise. They are incredible fun. The shop I ran out of is sadly closed (the owner died). If you are looking to DIY they are pretty straightforward but do have some quirks.

The full cup motors are... Unreal. A 350 (358 I think?) shouldn't have that kind of power, torque and it sure shouldn't rev up that fast. You can often buy one from a 2nd teir or nationwide team with a few hours on it and run that cheaper than a full rebuild.

If you are looking for one take a bit of extra time, so some research and make sure you wind up with a road course chassis car.

I'd also say this, my level of respect for the guys who are really fast in stock cars has always been high, but it went through the roof after I had some seat time in one.

 

Keith,

You know better than I do that on a race car everything is really a wear item, it's just a question of rate of wear! Having said that, yes, they will wear pretty quickly. The road course cars have surprisingly good brakes, but they are very heavy cars with a ton of power and relatively little tire. It's hard not to spin the rears, and you will absolutely go through pads pretty quick.

Having said that, you would get out of the car laughing they are so much fun!
David

 

It's all a matter of expectations and what we think normal is I guess! The bigger tracks where the brakes have time to cool every lap definitely make a difference.

 

Thanks!

Not this season. Got divorced last fall which isn't fun and puts a crimp in the cash flow. So I've been concentrating on work and the kids. Hoping to go back to something next season, and almost have a plan for it!

 

Have you driven one yet? I worked w/ Buck Baker Racing School years ago and if they are still around (googlesearch I found references but nothing much current) and recommend them for fun and tracktime versus Perry Experience. Renting one for a weekend is less hassle than owning.

If your location is current in the NC mtns, a great place to unwind one is Chasing the Dragon hillclimb where I've seen baby Nascars run the time I was there and they ran quick times.

Dragon Hill Climb

 

You might consider an alternative to an old stock car and buy a new Howe Chassis Camaro. They can run in the Pro Trans AM (TA2) class, in GT2 at SCCA Regional and Nationals, and be great track day cars too. A set of spec tires is about $600 and they run pretty mild sealed LS engines. Good, safe fun with lots of places to race for not too much running cost. Just a thought.

 

I'm really intrigued by that new Howe chassis, looks like a great spec if you want a modern-ish but not uber expensive big V8 tube framed monster.

anyone driven one? more importantly, anyone campaigned one?

as an example: http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/2799263/TA2-American-Muscle-Camaro-V8-Stockcar-GTA-.html

 

it ticks all the boxes:

-big loud V8 power/torque
-properly quick
-can be raced in a lot of places including semi-pro (TransAm has a decent calendar now, or SCCA GT2/GTA/NASA, I think even some vintage series will allow it)
-closed fender, low aero (so you can race!)
-spec (so you can race!)
-cheap-ish buy-in and running costs, relatively speaking

 

I suggest renting one and driving on track before committing to buy. I owned one and sold it shortly after testing it at a private track. NOT the most rewarding thing to drive

 

care to elaborate? i.e. what didn't you like.

also you've been spoiled by 996/997 Cups, GT3Rs, etc...how disappointed would you have been otherwise?

 

well they are 3400 pound cars with 700+ horsepower. Handling and braking not so good but those things handle in a straightaway! If you want a more rewarding but similar experience get an old SCCA GT1 car or an old Trans Am car. 2700 pounds with about the same horsepower but much better handling and braking...but VERY high limits

 

is there a chance you had an oval track car... "in a straightaway..." ? Unusual opinion, since the purpose built road racing cars handle quite well despite their weight... yes, they are heavier than the basic econobox racer but for grins on track days, it is not a draw back... braking is equal to anything on the track, the purpose built road cars have excellent brake packages... an oval track brake package does not work on road courses and may be the source for concern...... driver capability is an issue as well, track day events are fun running the cars at 8/10 of their ultimate limits, which will put most track day drivers beyond the limits of their abilities... there are many alternatives to fun on track days, former road course only cars need a set of tires and fuel to be ready for the weekend... ( there are tire alternatives below cup level that are available at reasonable cost as those racing in other V8 classes )...

 

I've never driven one, but my buddy Ricky Sanders races in TA2 with them and he has a blast. Costs are low and the folks who are rebuilding the Trans-Am brand are really good people. They seem to be pretty receptive to the driver's input. You can also run the old Mustang Challenge cars in TA3 there now. If I had a budget to go pro racing right now, I'd seriously consider building a program around that series. I understand Jerome's point, they are basically just big heavy stock cars built for road racing. Probably not that refined feeling to a sports car guy, but a challenge to master none the less!

 

The Howe TA2 can be 2600 lbs with driver, I think GT2 legal min weight is 2880. Big big difference from NASCAR I am pretty sure. Excellent race car from what I have heard. Figure $75k or so to build new. But figure $100+K to race TA2. Much cheaper that GT3 Cup car that is the main rival in SCCA GT2.