Jeremy Clarkson and Motor Trend are full of Crap!

The real problem is that few people get to drive these cars unless you own one. Clarkston and others are appealing to an audience that wonders what driving a super car is like. I remember a 599 where he said he would rather have an 430. He was right. I leaked my 430 better than the 599.

 

Exactly right. Any resemblance between Clarkson and automotive fact is random. The rest is driven by the agenda. Give the man his attention as we are doing in this thread, and he wins. Best to ignore him.

 

Just watch him for the news. It has the most entertaining bits of the show.

 

For a while, I thought I was the only guy who doesn't take Jezza serious anymore. I like his humour, I think he's a good showman, but since he talked bullsh** about the (real) Aston Vanquish,
I can't take him serious in any way.

Sometimes it seems he has no clues about the cars he's driving on the airfield.

I like Top Gear because of their funny stories (bank robbery in Albania e.g.), but if you want serious information about a sports car, I would choose Chris Harris as reporter.

I know Jezza privately owns a 458 Berlinetta, but maybe he isn't that kind of a petrol head Chris Harris is.

 

Jeremy does not privately own a 458 to my knowledge. The widespread pictures of him in the car with his daughter that led to the claims of him owning one (I gather these are the pictures you use as a base for your claim) is Ferrari Northern Europe's press car, hence the number plate FNE.

 

Chris Harris stated he wouldn't even consider an Aventador as a driving experience after driving the F12. As far as entertainment, both journalists are brilliant. Chris Harris being by far the better driver.

 

That TG is just show and nothing to be serious about, is proven amongst others by when they compared the FF to a Bentley on the frozen lake.
The Bentley was subtly put on top of the FF ("the FF has very complex electronics", "weird 4WD system", "a handful and difficult to drive" etc).

But most importantly, note that if you watch this video, that at 4:38 they say between the lines that "the difference is partly because the Bentley has better studded tyres than the FF"...

In the situation where they are comparing, tyres are everything. So much for objective journalism.
I bet Wolfsburg did some wire transfers to the BBC for that one.

Video is here: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S2GwLUN-8Q]Ferrari FF Vs. Bentley Continental V8 on Ice! - Top Gear - Series 18 - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

 

Yeah. This was pretty much known to be a set up from the start. It's like polling mostly Democrats if you want to get a certain result.

Once again, these characters are not honest dudes. They are agenda-driven, pretty much like all "journalists." Read or watch them for entertainment if that pleases you, but don't take them seriously.

 

Please, for the love of god, don't refer to JC as a "journalist"... The FF v Conti test again proves my point that the premise for the videos they make is set before shooting even begins or they have even gotten the cars. FF is too "advanced" and too "direct". Okay, maybe it's this way because the clients wanted it?

 

@mister maranello

I didn't know the picture - just googled it. I saw JC with exactly this car (but without a further person) in Knightsbridge/London. I only know the Press car license plates for Astons and Land Rovers, so in that case I didn't know that's a press car.
I thought those rims were from 430 scud so for me it looked like a private pimped car.

Clarkson is known for criticising British cars with joy, but he owns/owned an Aston Martin and Range Rover.
To be honest, I thought the 458 doesn't fit him when I saw it.

 

I thought the point made about journalists flogging cars was a good one. Also, two points to consider-as they flog them they rapidly destroy the tires as the cars make the rounds and Ferrari has long been accused of providing specially tuned press cars. Add some HP to the press car and then pass it around to journalist-I would imagine the tires are destroyed after the first magazine is through with it : )

 

You've read Chris' piece on Jalopnik then...

Well, let me tell you something, it might come as a real shock...

EVERY SINGLE MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD MAKES SURE THEIR PRESS CARS ARE IN OPTIMAL CONDITION.

Yes, tires go like hell. And the cars are beaten up. Even though I despise giving them attention as a car related program, Top Gear was in a lawsuit a few years back with regards to their drivers beating the s**t out of some older cars, which needed a fair bit of TLC afterwards.

But Ferrari is not alone in making sure their factory press cars, especially those used to lap Fiorano, are in good condition. What they do is make sure the tires are fresh, the engine is good on power, fuel and oil. But so does Porsche, so does everyone. Nissan was cought delivering a GTR press car to the Nürburgring, with nearly 50 additional horsepower over the base model. I believe a few American cars were cought in the same test.

Nissan of course blamed it on that every engine was built differently and power could vary. That us true but not 50 hp +/- true...

But in the end, what does it matter if a press car is 0.2 seconds quicker around Fiorano with a test driver, or 1 second quicker around the Nürburgring in the hands of a racing driver? The truth is every car is slightly different, some cars are more fresh than others. I know this is an old argument, but very very few people will be able to push the car to the extent that it will be worth checking or complaining that your car is not "factory spec."

 

It is of course much easier to zip up a turbocharged engine than an NA. Just crank up the boost and hey, who cares about longevity. That accounts for the Nissan effect.

For years Ferrari has been accused of supplying "ringers" for road tests. But after all these years there is no smoking gun on Ferrari, and that alone tells you something ...

 

Yes. It is very easy for a manufacturer with turbo powerplant to simple do some "tweaks" to the car. But I think this is more of a thing of the past, I don't think tuned press cars are as widespread today as they were a few years ago. It is my personal impression that people don't care as much about numbers now, it's more about the experience. If the press car is a bit slower than factory numbers, nobody really cares. If it's faster, not that many people raise a flagc This is at least my impression from reading car magazines the last few years.

Some magazines of course have a reputation and a thing for lazer testing acceleration figures, cornering G's, dyno testing WHP etc. But I find that the majority of serious publications targeted towards sportscar and expensive machinery don't really put that much into the validity of the numvers as they may have used to. The thing that's important is how it drives and that it's faster than the car it's replacing.

My .02

 

Here is a smoking gun on R&T's California test, and very subtle at that. If you want a DCT car to accelerate quicker, just put lower gearing in it. Nobody will notice and you can even give them the gearing in the car they tested. Preproduction anyway, so maybe that low gearing is what we would have chosen in the end.

Wondered why that thing accelerated that fast.
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I think you are right about the trend toward qualitative vs. quantitative testing. For example Automobile magazine hardly has any performance numbers at all. They substitute writing that seems designed to try to evoke the "feeling" the car imparts. Road & Track and Car and Driver are more traditional, giving lots of data as well as the writers' sense of what the car is about. Frankly I prefer the latter. While it is easy to get obsessive about numbers (for example, look at the current rage on 'Ring times), there is no substitute for objective information to go with the writer's "feelings," whether or not they do the car poetic justice.

 

FWIW speeds in gears for this California match very closely the 458:
458 in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (@9000 RPM) are 47 mph, 66 mph, 89 mph, 113 mph.
Cali in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (@8,000 RPM) are 43 mph, 67 mph, 90 mph, 114 mph

So the production 458 is actually even more short geared than this Cali.

 

You said no smoking gun and the 458 was not even introduced when the California was tested in Europe by R&T and other magazines. That California was clearly a ringer (smoking gun) with gearing for maximum acceleration. With the DCT, the extra shifting did not hurt acceleration at all.

Of course the 458 is geared lower. Its redline is 9000 rpm vs 8000 for the California, so 11% lower gearing gets you the same speeds in gears assuming same diameter tires.

 

Your comparing the F12 to the Nissan GTR ?

 

I have just received the December Motor Trend here in Oz. The F12 just barely beats a stock 2014 Vette around Laguna Seca?? The F12 does 3.6sec to 60mph, Vette 3.7sec?? F12 with carbon-ceramic discs stops in 106ft from 60mph. Vette with steel discs, 95ft?? If I owned that F12 I would say "what the ...?"

The F12's have just started being delivered here in Perth, man do I ever like my manual 575 more than ever now. A$150k vs A$750k makes a difference in ones thinking I will admit, however the F12 does not inspire the lust to have one, unlike the Maranello did when it first showed up here. The new Fa La La Fazza has certainly made me lustful again however.

 

There is a much better comparison, look at the center of the dashboard of both cars, the F12 says Ferrari and the Vette says Chevrolet

Rick

 

Clarkson has a history of comments made for entertainment rather than giving the full facts, I just accept Top Gear for what it is; a family entertainment show, Fifth Gear used to be much more informative but to me it seems to be going the same way as well now. I suppose that format will always win in the ratings rather than a more serious/fact based car review type format.

He has a history of such comments about steering wheel buttons, in his top gear review of the E60 M5 he spends half of the time complaining that the up and down arrow toggle switch on the front right of the steering wheel didn't increase/decrease the volume of the audio, instead he seemed upset it changed his current radio station to some classical music channel. What he failed to point out was on the other side of the steering wheel was a clear toggle switch with +/- on it, clearly for volume control, with the right side arrow switch clearly to change audio input source!! His influence is very real however, at least in the UK, heard it from several sources that when the BMW 1M coupe came out uptake of the UKs 450 car allocation was initially very slow, soon after his very favourable Top Gear review on the car it had very rapidly sold out at dealers.

Having said all that if you get the chance to check out the recently released Top Gear Road trip DVD which came out in UK just before xmas there are some awesome cars and its classic Top Gear fun, some great shots of Hammond driving the F12 and at the end he concludes it was the best car of all the ones he drove on the programme.

 

The F12 is too heavy.

If you where in to Road racing (or any racing) an F12 would never be the weapon of choice.

It's a GT, and Ferrari has never said otherwise.

 

Yes, I am comparing the acceleration, in each gear, of my F12 and my GT-R.
Is that what you were asking, or was there a deeper question?