McLaren Depreciation 12-C: a nightmare- werewolf?

True....

But I think everyone can improve. There's no harm in letting them know they need to. The real harm is when people stop telling them they need to.

That goes for both Mac's and Ferrari's -- Lambo's too. This is a specialized and small market. Screw it up and you're really screwed.

I'll be totally honest here. I said this way back when Mac introduced it's world wide sales plan, which I said was way too aggressive and would never work.

They've done a lot better in penetrating the market than I would have guessed. And, the owners of them drive them more miles than F cars which means they just enjoy driving them.

That speaks a lot about what they created and how the US market was waiting for something like the 12c.

The problem is, their follow through was wrong and the brand now tainted. It's difficult to sell a new 12c when there are so many good low mileage used ones out there at unbelievable discounts. When you compete against yourself, you lose.

 

However: We are not here to judge what is right and what is wrong. Even the emotionless approach with "our babies" must be allowed. As everywhere and always: "Respect" is the magic word.

 

this is great to see. If you buy this car worrying about resale then you are not making enough money to own this car. Drive it to hell and enjoy it. If you die tomorrow then resale does not matter much anyway. Might as well leave your money in the bank and just look at Fcars.

 

Today's auto marketing efforts, sometimes sadly, do not gear(pun) themselves to the "classics" either in the way they look or drive. The buyers going forward are not the 50+ year olds but are the 35+ that have the income to support 3rd car purchases like a Ferrari. Ferrari, Mclaren, etc. all build their marketing plans 10+ years out and it is usually those plans that decide how, when and what type design they will use to penetrate the markets. When they do not plan that far out, as in the 12C case, the build becomes something of a burden in the market(s) and requires a manufacturer to "turn on a dime" and change the plan. Hopefully, McLaren will be able to do just that. Ferrari, on the other hand, only has to control volume as the design plan is already in place. Much against the Mayor's thoughts it does not look like any amount of push is going to make Ferrari move back towards a less technically convoluted product and, on the contrary, we are more than likely to see even more electronic/technical innovation within the marque.

I am reminded of the Jack-In-The-Box commercial where the millennial girl is asking Jack about the "clock bracelet on his wrist". Be it good or bad, we are rapidly leaving the "classic" design thoughts behind.

 

You can buy 550s, 575s and 599s for pennies on the dollar. A buddy just sold his red/tan 599 with 2,000 miles for 150k. I sold my 575 for 90k. 12cyls doesn't guarantee you anything.

 

In addition, explain the Dino Gt. How many 6 cylinder cars in the modern age are worth 300K?

 

Dunno, I don't follows 6cyls much. My pick in that category would be a 959. But for a dino? Thats crazy.

 

I never claimed I couldn't find the enthusiasts. I just wanted to know who you thought were "enthusiasts". You stated in your previous post that if Ferrari would make their cars more like they were before they would be "more appreciated today by more enthusiasts". Now I can't read apparently but I simply don't agree with this.

right... I don't know where this is coming from because I didn't quote you mentioning the bad Mclaren resale values nor did I bring it up. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing.

Yeah, it's horrible when the biggest complaint is the paint quality.. =/
My impression is that the modern cars (especially the 458) have gotten more praise than practically any other Ferrari bar the F40.
This is what you wrote about a year ago. I couldn't of course read it but I hope you can.

And then last week.

So the 458 is a fantastic car, a great car. But you feel sorry for the people who loves it? Or does these quotes only apply to the MP4?..

I suggest you take your own advice.

 

I don't whine. I state fact. If you don't like the facts you have two choices.

1) you can ignore them

2) you can state your own

 

You are a fantastic source of knowledge and have been a great contributor to this forum so I don't mean to be an a**. But since your "facts" are nothing more than your personal opinion (which in some cases are all over the place) I'm going to choose to ignore them.

 

This thread is getting old...

If money doesn't matter then drive whatever you want if it does do not buy the McLaren because the proof is simple just look at the prices. Are they both great cars yes, if you can drive one for a year and get back your money vs lose $100k that's a personal decision, I know what my decision was. Now if you asked would I buy a used McLaren in the next 6 months or so the answer is yes why not great car and the price will be in 911 Porsche area on a coupe. There are other considerations. I was going to buy oone and have it shipped down to Florida the dealer in Miami made it clear they would not pick up the car for service where as both Ferrari dealerships West Palm or Ft Lauderdale would be happy to service me....

 

Respect is the magic word, I agree.

 

Yah, something has happened.

I bought a 458 spider and didn't like it. It should be a lot better. I told them it should be better when I gave them back the keys.

Will they listen?

Nah.

And I'm not alone.

But I drove the 12c and didn't like it any better for the same reasons I thought the 458 spider was moving in the wrong direction.

These companies can do a better job. We are the kool aid drinkers who let them get away with it.

McLaren absolutely knew what it was doing when it started to dump cars into the US market. It's a small market and when you put a lot of excess inventory into it the prices are going to plummet.

Should we give them a pass?

I don't think so.

If you want to give them a pass, go to MacLife. They drink a lot of Kool aid there. Personally I'm more interested in protecting owners than the manufacturers making a buck off us.

If people want to attack me personally, go for it. I'm certainly not perfect. But, do it somewhere else than here so we can get back to the subject. You're boring people.

 

Just curious - Do you think it was McLaren or a bunch of greedy dealers hoping to make $$ on the initial interest/demand by fluffing up their # of orders. I could see dealers doing that before McLaren would decide to do it. Either way it is a moot point now. The car has been on the market now for almost 2 years. The resale issue has been discussed ad nausean. For some reason - more so a Ferrari site more than on ANY other site. Makes you wonder why.

 

Humans are nothing if not different from each other. Different in viewpoint, values, experiences. And the dimensions of these cars are broad and complex, ranging from sensory to financial. So one person can be rightfully thrilled by his new 458 Spyder while another can be left unperturbed. Maybe something will come along to appeal to the ones who are left unperturbed. I hope so. Meanwhile I hope that all 458 owners enjoy their cars as much as I do.

 

Why? Because in Mac Life this subject is verboten.

As to why McLaren sent them to the US, it's pretty obvious. They had sales numbers that they promised the investors and there were coming up short. So, pump extra cars that dealers do not want into the US market.

The dealer in Philadelphia must be really pissed. Every chance he gets he undersells the market by at least 20 grand.

 

The story that I heard from my Mclaren sources is that the extra 2012 cars that were later dumped onto the US market were originally scheduled for the China market. Mclaren thought they would get their sales license in China approved, but like everything else in China, it didn't get approved in time and it left Mclaren with a huge stock of cars sitting at their factory. Most of these extra 2012 cars arrived at the US dealers fairly late (eg. around June and July). Normally, manufacturers wouldn't do this in the US market because nobody wants to buy a 2012 car in July of 2012. Everybody would want the 2013 model year.

 

Moooooo! Round 'em up and head 'em out!

 

Well, it is in the UK only because they still believe English cars are best.
Many people in the UK still think Jaguar, Range Rover, Bentley and Rolls Royce are English...
Luckily the Indians and Germans saved those brands from extinction and mismanagement.

 

I write the newsletter for our local FOC, and Scuderia SW Clubs. In the latest issue I tested a 12C. For those interested....

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Scuderia-SW-----We-test-the-12C--The-Gathering--Track-Day-Fun-and-More---.html?soid=1102213336868&aid=91bHxD1FYNM

 

12 month old 2000 mile well optioned 458's in Europe with extended warranty/7year maintenance plans are 25-30% off sticker at official dealers. That's in 1 year.