My understanding is that there was no such thing as a "model year" car model. For those markets where the "model year" concept was enforced, they put a plate on the cars saying "Model year N + 1": - after the 1st of July in Europe - after the 1st of September for the US (if I understand the American Model year) But they were basically no difference between the cars produced before or after the change. Main changes in car's production that could have justified a new "model year" did occur at random dates, depending on other contingencies: for instance, during the 328 production the difference between "serie 1" and "serie 2" 328s (cars with revised suspension, etc...) even brought a new type designation and homologation (F106 AP/PB against another F106 something) but occured in February 1988. No change whatsoever to the cars in July for the new "model year" in Europe, or in September for the new "model year" in United States. I had a look at my April '89 GTB plates, just for the sake of it: - there is no "model year" engraved by the factory; the plate affixed by the french importer, Ch.Pozzi, is manually engraved "Année-modèle 89". - the papers of the car do not mention anything; it is manually written on the first page of the warranty booklet "AM 89". Rgds
I don't know in total what laws may drive the official model year in the US but there is no official reason for it being September. There is a lot of fudging allowed due to other legislative reasons. The QV production period is a good example. For US cars MY 83 started and ended in or very near Jan 83 and ended December 83. MY 84 started Dec 83 and ended July 84. MY 85 started July 84 and ended July 85. There was a lot of inconsistency in the model year dates of the last 2 years of TR production. California did not allow 91 TR's due to emission laws so I have seen California TR's with a VIN of a higher number than TR49 state cars. and I have seen a number of unusual VIN/production dates for 91 49 state cars as well. It is often driven by smog and safety legislation so nothing is set in stone. As for indications on the car for model year the smog equipment label under the hood shows which official model year the car is. Decoding the VIN does as well.
OK, tried to "bracket" the date of production of Karen's car (29041) yesterday evening... Not much luck as there are not many cars for which a date is given, and furthermore there doesn't seem to be any logic between the numbers, rather probably by different markets. We have 28741 GTS LHD EU given as 1/80 28895 GTS LHD 7/79 28961 GTS LHD USA 7/79 29001 GTS LHD EU 79 29077 GTS LHD 80 29135 GTS LHD 1/80 29347 GTS RHD 80 It would probably be more useful to have a sequence for more RHD cars, and with known date of prod. Best solution is the factory I guess. Rgds
Interesting Brian, and rather different of what we are accustomed to in a country with a central state. Without derailing the thread: When the Model Year concept was introduced in France, the first idea was to have the date of change on September 1st, to coincide with the "Salon de l'Auto" (in fact held every two year). Then July 1st was choosen, for whichever reason. Every major manufacturer usually "holds back" all year long all small modifications to a common vehicle during its production run, for introduction of all ideas in one stroke on the next "model year" version, so there are indeed differences in the equipment of cars, etc, with each different model year. That make people usually waiting in May/June to order the next "model year" car with all the modifications. It doesn't work this way (or didn't) with Ferraris, because the factory introduced big or small modifications to a model whenever the production chain was ready for this, they didn't wait to concentrate all modifs to next July. So there is actually no difference, any given year, between a June built Euro 328 and a July one. It makes no sense to this "model year" concept for Ferraris: legally, if sold in June 88 a 328 is a M.Y 88, if sold in July it is a M.Y 89, but it is actually the same car,without the row of small, or big, improvements that any other manufacturer concentrates for the new MY each year. As you know, the VINs of the Euro Ferraris of the eighties are not composed to allow to distinguish between "Model year" production, contrary to the American VINs (ZFFWA19B0000xxxxx for all 328 GTBs during the whole production run, ZFFWA20B0000xxxxx for all GTSs). End of "out of subject"
Great post. Thank you. This conversation is applicable to my euro 1984 911 3.2 Carrera. Its an early special order special wishes car. The COA from Porsche lists it a a 3.2 1983 SC, which there is no such thing. Porsche says the same thing to me when I called the Atlanta offices. The car was finished May of 1984, before the cut off in July before the start of the 84 3.2 Carrera production. But the VIN and everything else indicate its a 1984 " model " year. Car has no emissions and is exempt in GA so the rest does not matter. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Carreaper, You are an early bird, indeed... Pardon me if I'm a bit dumb (it usually happens to me quite often) but there is a discrepancy for your 911 in the datas above, of which you may be aware, between: - the metal plate which says: Manufactured 5/84 - and the Warranty card which says "ausgeliefert an Jan 18, 1984" which means: delivered on January 18th, 1984... if it is the same car indeed (same VIN) for it to be delivered to its first owner in Germany in January 1984, it must have been manufactured before? Rgds
If it helps my carb 1979 GTS is 29433 the build date is September 1979. It has an 80 MPH speedo. By US standards I would think it would be a 1980. The title is 1979. Maybe a leftover?
So if we think the factory was shut for August the most likely build months are July or September 1979 for this car
Thanks for all the replies folks, and for your investigations Nerofer. All seems to confirm what I suspected, that my car was actually built late 79 but first registered (in HK) 80, close to the end of the run for the carb'ed cars. It also makes me wonder about some of the 'curious' anomalies in my car (and don't ask me to name one right now as I can't bring one to mind!) whether they are due to the dubious history of my car, or in fact were the result of a mixed parts bin at the time of construction. I believe Ferrari in those days often used parts from the incoming model if they happened to have run out of certain items for the current model.
Karen, Do not hesitate to ask the factory for the date of production of your car: it is the only thing they are still giving for free...this against the scan of any proof of ownership. A simple E-mail may bring the answer. It would be interesting to know; I guess the sequence of production of the RHD cars was a bit out of the mainstream "euro" and "US market cars"; besides, 79 to 80 seems to have been a very complicated period indeed. Rgds
Yeah maybe I should; never really bothered me, but it would be interesting to fill in the sequence. Since I'm not on the same continent as my car at present, I'll have to wait to get the information in place.
I have 29733 as October and 29961 as November. The last date I have is 30279 being built in November.
Agree, and I was not aware of that as I do not read German. The car was made early in the 3.2 Carrera production run, delivered in Jan 84, and the federalized in may of 84. They may have been American military and brought the car home. Far as 308's go, there seems to be enough evidence to suggest Ferrari had lots of room to fudge when a car was born, and when it got its year designation. Lambo is probably even more diverse given the even smaller volume.
Andrew, Here you go: (don't forget to enclose a proof of ownership) http://www.ferrari.com/english/_layouts/Ferrari/Ferrari_contactUs.aspx Rgds
Just got this back from Ferrari, Regarding your kind request we inform you that the manufacturing date of your car is October 1979. So Chassis Nr 29875 (Euro RHD Dry sump carburettored - engine number 01434 fitted when built) is built in Oct 79 and first registered January 1981 Anyone know why they would use an 01434 number for the engine, seems low but I guess it could be the 'replacement stock' number
Andrew, I do not see anything abnormal in this: your car does not seem out of sequence with its engine number. At this time in production, different "series" of engines, with different sequences of numbers seem to have been used, but if my informations are correct: 29143 got #01370 30163 got #01449 30905 got #01499 These engine numbers are coherent with yours. Rgds
Thanks, I always thought they should be same as Chassis number.....you learn something new every day!
No, not for these cars; perhaps it is the thought of the expression "matching numbers" which is misleading; it is litterally appropriate only for most of the "older" production, mostly the Big twelves, were the engine and chassis numbers were indeed identical at build. But this was for simpler times, when Ferrari was building only one model, either RHD or LHD, with the same spec for each market. Then came the 308 and its puzzle of North American market cars, euro market cars, swiss market cars, japanese market cars, LHD and RHD, dry-sump GTB (euro) wet sump GTB (American market) wet-sump GTS and what have you... So for 308s and 328s, the engine number and chassis number are not identical, mostly due to the big puzzle of the different models of engine, and chassis, produced for different markets. Matching exact numbers would have been rather problematical... But if your car still have its original engine (the number of the engine should have been handwritten on the first page of the warranty card at delivery, therefore ensuring that it will be possible to check if the engine in the car is still the original one...) then you could say that these are "matching numbers" in some way: not identical between chassis and engine, but identical to what they were at delivery. Rgds
They started over with the engine serial number sequence when they introduced a new "engine family" (and they must have changed the engine family designation when the "revision 2" of the euro came out in 1978 -- corresponding to the 155/78 OM). On the top of the engine block behind the water pump, there is a plaque area where they show the engine family and the engine serial number. This example shows engine family F106A021 and engine serial number 00927 (but I don't know what year/version carbed 308 it is from): Image Unavailable, Please Login What is the engine family shown on your late carb euro 308?
