Car drifts a lot on icey wet roads.. Is it normal?

I don't know for certain, but I would suspect it is a normal difference between an AWD and RWD car.

 

You cannot drive a RWD car like an AWD car. AWD will always inspire more confidence under acceleration in the conditions you describe given equal tires.
You must get used to dosing throttle inputs more carefully than you would have with your previous cars.

 

If the road is icey, even an awd would lose traction unless fitted with strudded tires.

 

Yes- indeed.

However, it also true that in low-grip conditions AWD cars are much more effective at putting their power down.

 

It took me about three months to get used to accelerating, shifting & turning, and that was on dry roads in sunny Southern California. I still have fun seeing how far ahead of a pack of cars I was with at the last stop light is about 30 seconds after the light turns green (in those times when I'm just accelerating back to normal Ferrari speed). Even with a lot of time in other cars, the quickness with which the throttle sends power to the wheels could get you into difficulty on low-traction roadways. Further, the quickness with which turns can be accomplished may similarly cause a loss in traction on ice or snow. Fortunately, practicing driving in a Ferrari is a lot more fun than almost anything else. You could also try a large open parking lot to get a sense of where the edge of the envelope is with turns, accelerating and stopping.

 

You cannot drive a California like an LP560-4 or R8. One thing is the difference between AWD and 4WD...

And the Pirelli winter tires are not the best IMO. There is a big difference in winter tires. If you want a real winter tire, you get what's called a "nordic specification tire". That's a real winter tire for use in Scandinavia etc.

To be honest, I would not drive the California in snowy conditions without studded tires. There is so much power, it is potentially very dangerous. Even in a low-powered RWD car like a 200 hp BMW 3-series I feel like I need to be very careful on ice and snow because I don't have studded tires. I know a guy who drove his California daily througout a winter season in Norway. He did not repeat that the next year, it's no fun driving a car like that in those conditions.

I would always leave all the driver aids on when driving on the public road during winter, but even then, remember that they will not save you if you drive like crazy! Be careful with a RWD sportscar in winter conditions. Go to a BIG parking lot if you want to drift or slide around in the snow.

If you want me to be brutally honest with you; leave the car in the garage. Take it out again in March when the conditions get better, and get to know the car. You don't sound like you have a lot of experience driving a RWD in winter conditions (no disrespect intended). My advice is to let the car sit and enjoy it when Spring arrives.

 

Which Manettino setting did you use? Stay in comfort mode to be safe in Winter - do not use CST OFF as you will fly off the road in the first corner you take at speed. That mode is best left for the track or when you have proper conditions and know the car quite well.

High performance RWD cars like the California are designed to make it easier to induce oversteer. AWD cars are designed to avoid oversteer. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

That's the same thing I heard too.
Try the Dunlop winter tire!
I use them on my F01, the pirllis were like described above.

 

I've had a 2010 Cali and a 2012 Cali and drove them both with SottoZero's through the winters of 2009 through 2011 when I got the FF which is my winter car now. I still have the 2012 Cali. The Cali and SottoZero's is PERFECT in the snow! 4WD would help but in snow and ice I would keep the manitino in the Comfort mode. I never felt as if it were sliding around. You may want to try to keep you heavy foot out of the gas in snow! Just like with the FF I would enter the office in the morning and ask the other folks if it was slippery because the Cali and SottoZeros really stuck well! Look for my posts through the winters of 2009-2011 and you should find photos of the Cali in the snow. There was even a photo of one of them in the Ferrari Owner's Club magazine once

If you are having serious troubles with traction and that combination I would have a four wheel alignment done, THAT probably is your problem.

Rick

 

The SottoZero is may do it's job as a winter tire. But it's not near as good as a nordic tire. The SZ is a typical European-spec tire. The rubber is harder, and it's designed for higher speeds than a nordic specification winter tire.

 

With all due respect, Winters in Canada are probably just as good (bad) as those in Finland.

The winter/snow performance SottoZeros are V or even W-rated which means they are rated for 240, 270 kph maximum speeds. The "nordic specification tires" are generally snow and ice tires that have more aggressive treads, higher sidewalls and softer compounds. They will track better at lower speeds in Winter BUT are not V-rated and do not come in sizes that will even remotely fit rims for the Ferrari California. So you won't be able to find a nordic specification tire that will fit the car.

In addition because nordic specification tires are designed to have higher sidewalls and more aggressive winter tread, they will feel mushy and vague in handling terms are often either only Q, T or H speed-rated. There are reasons why tire makers don't make them in sizes that will fit high performance cars like Fcars or even BMWs. On a dry winter's day, drivers can easily reach 240 kph on some stretches of the Autobahn.

I have run tires like the SottoZeros on BMWs for over 20 years and they perform extremely well in snow and wet winter conditions. Ice is a different matter and probably nothing except studs or chains will work at all on sheets of black or glare ice - such tires are not permitted for general use in Canada.

SottoZeros are your best bet for general Winter driving in the California.

 

agree,customers love the sotto zreos,,also they are a (2 season tire),fall,winter

 

Fall is for burning the last of the rubber off of the PZero's I have had on the car all summer

Rick

 

Very funny then, that I have been with California's and FF's with nordic tires and even a Murcielago with road legal studs from a major manufacturer (not Custom spec)!

Just to get it clear, I'm not trying to contradict what your years of experience with the cars has given you. All I'm saying is that there are better alternatives to the SZ tires. Wait you say about nordic tires not being made in dimensions for sportier cars, is completely wrong.

 

To be more specific, there are no "nordic tires" available in North America in the sizes that fit any current Ferrari model. The SottoZeros are the only tires recommended for Fcars here. The performance of the SottoZeros would far exceed those of nordic tires on dry winter highways. We are really discussing tires designed for different environments, metropolitan roads that are regularly salted/plowed and experience light snow coverage vs. country roads or long private laneways that may not get any plowing at all. It would seem somewhat impractical to operate Fcars in the latter.

In Canada, studded tires are only used in more sparsely-populated or isolated northern locations and generally not legal or practical in metropolitan areas. If you have studs on your tires you will likely not be driving at high speeds on the Autobahn or taking it into fancy indoor parking facilities. I would be most interested to know what models and sizes of nordic tires you use on your Fcars and their speed ratings.

 

I'll ask the people I know, find out some details about the tires if you want to.

 

Yes please, thank you.

IMO Fcar drivers would do best to simply put on SottoZeros in the Winter for a number of reasons:

a) safety at all practical daily speeds under city/highway driving conditions,
b) preservation of the handling characteristics of the Fcar,
c) compliance with the legal requirements in many jurisdictions,
d) versatility as they are permitted everywhere whereas studded tires are prohibited in many locations and carry severe restrictions in others where you'd have to drive your Fcar like a Lada.

Of course, SottoZeros won't save you if you go too fast for the conditions but then that can also happen in the Summer with PZeros as well.

 

Good point. It's important to remember that not even the best winter tires and driver aids will save you if you drive like a tool!

 

Had a BMW M3 with Blizzaks in winter. It is a front engine rear wheel drive car. Had no problems. Took it skiing many many times.

but I prefer AWD with all season radials. Ordered a Audi S4 with AS tires. Our two Subaru turbos are AWD and have AS tires. No problems.

Note: all are manual transmissions (except 458 Spider which is not driven on snowy road conditions).



Best

 

Chris – I just came across your thread and have seen that you life in Switzerland too. I am driving my Maser and Ferrari during winter since more than 10 years. The older I get the more careful I become and I attend a snow training every winter.

This winter on 11th January 2014 I will attend a snow training in Ambri with my 575M and my Maser 3200. Maybe you want to join us?

Here you find more about the training: Winterfahrtraining Auto Kaiser, Zug

It is organized by a Mercedes dealer but the owner of this is also the owner of my Ferrari/Maserati dealer and he usually takes his FF to Ambri.

Markus
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login