Ebay auction fail on a C/4

If you bid less than the bid increment above the lower bid, your bid will get rejected. I have had that happen to me. My bid was higher, but I still lost.

 

Hi
I am only going to make one post on this issue.

I tried to sell my car by ebay auction. After it closes at 202000 i received a message and documentation that the computers at ebay blocked bids from at least one bonafide buyer and enthusiast from this community preventing me from getting the price for the car i deserved. (the persons bid was over $60,000 higher than the closing bid). There was no good reason for blocking these bids.

After considering the options I though the fairest approach for all of us was to re-list it on ebay with a buy it now and best offer for one day and give everyone the option to make their best offer.

Mike declined to make an offer (I would have as well probably) but the car sold by mid afternoon for about 25% more that the final auction price.

Automated Ebay processes clearly compromised the auction and I didn't feel i alone should take the hit for that. We are not talking about a couple hundred bucks here

It sucks for Mike but I think the approach I took was the fairest for all concerned. I was up front with him about what i planned to do and when he would be able to make an offer if he wished.

To categorize this is a scam is not accurate as there was certainly no dishonesty or misrepresentation on my part.

Thanks for the support afwrench.

Stacy

 

Looks like I jumped to the wrong conclusion, seller. My apologies...

 

Difficult situation and I can't honestly say what I would do if I was in Stacy's position.

Moving forward maybe the OP should look at the one at Gooding's Scottsdale auction instead which is in a similar colour

1972 Ferrari 365 GTC/4 | Gooding & Company

 

You are wrong.
If a person's word means nothing to you, so be it.

If I make an agreement with someone, I keep it. Period.

 

I've been the victim of shenanigans by a Ferrari seller/individual seeking the highest price outside of an auction environment. Similar scenario where I thought I had a car purchased and the seller did not negotiate in good faith, trying to extract a few bucks to another seller (and moving similar toolkits from one car to another, but let's not go there). Sellers of these kinds of cars are pulling stunts all the time.

However if eBay actually made an error this big by witholding a legitimate bid then I would have to side with the seller. I get the whole higher reserve argument but we are talking about a process error by the company holding the auction.

We can't really know exactly what happened since there will be some 'he said, she said' banter. Just my 2 cents based on what was explained by the seller and potential buyers.

 

If the higher bid was known by the seller during the auction, then ferraripete would be right that it should have been cancelled. Since the seller did not know until after the auction closed, nothing could have been done by the seller and it was not a fair auction due to eBay's errors. IMO it would have been wrong to honor the closing bid, independent of the $$$, because it wasn't fair to the other bidder(s). eBay is at fault without any ambiguity.

The OP's frustration is well-founded because finding the right car is usually a long search and purchasing it is a special experience. That's a painful process. A long time ago I lost a dream house after a LONG search because the seller cancelled the contract the day after we signed it. We were at dinner celebrating when the call came in that they cancelled it. That left a scar, but the housing market tanked after that and in the long run we ended up happy that the sale didn't go through. Hopefully the OP will find another car - over time something even better usually comes along, but this kind of situation is unquestionably painful for the short term.

 

Given the explanation provided, "auction fail" seems more accurate than "scam", title edited.

 

I agree that this was not nor ever intended to be a scam. what it was however was a mismanaged auction process where the seller did not utilize the proper controls and protections to keep him from feeling less than whole is a below market transaction was the result.

the auction could have and should have been cancelled I a greater offer was being accepted in parallel or near the close of the auction.

last it seems like there may have been an ebay issue with a last second bid...we all try to get in at the last second hoping to snipe. it does go to show that buyers should bid early and often if they are serious. an early bid will ensure that if there are any problems, those problems can be remedied w/o incident.

while I will apologize to stacy as he may think I was being unfair and judgmental.

likewise I stand by my claim that the auction could have been managed better by the seller and this problem would have been avoided as it seems to have been unfortunate for at least one bidder.

 

In the original post we got the information that stacy thought that jippiejake was his auction's winner and stacy was ready to close. He did not employ a reserve and he was willing to accept jippiejake's high bid. Then he learned that greg512tr tried to enter a higher bid and ebay wouldn't let greg512tr's bid be entered. Apparently this was not a possibility that stacy knew about in advance. Rather, it was stacy's understanding that ebay would enter all bids, and that stacy would sell to the highest bidder. I don't see how stacy could have managed his auction better.

 

Ebay's screwup was a win for you. The fact that the final buyers max bid was more than $60,000 higher than the winning bid does not mean that he would have had to pay you what his max bid was. He would have only had to pay you the the incremental bid increase amount above the next highest bid. Ebay does not make you pay your highest bid, only the incremental amount over the next highest bid.
Assuming the OP's bid of $202,000 was the next highest bid, then the winning bid would have been something on the order of $203,000.
You should consider yourself lucky. Next time set a reserve.

 

Interesting conversation. Everyone has good points.
I have had numerous auction disappointments, in every case was the highest bidder and in no instance was the sale let proceed. One house, others cars, none Ebay.

My answer is to NEVER buy at an auction, in fact I don't even look at catalogs/ fliers.

 

No your foolish to think most people were ever honest selling cars.

The Internet just let's everyone tell there stories about being screwed so more and more people know and learn that people suck!!

 

Best factual post in this unfortunate thread.

 

Not necessarily true. Ebay's auction behavior depends very much on the #2 bidder's max bid as well as the extent of #1's over bid. If #2 bid just above the #3 bid, then you're correct; but if #2 bid closer to #1's top bid, then you're incorrect.

Let's say #3 bid to $201,000, then #2 bid to $259,000, and finally #1 bid to $265,000. If #1 was blocked on their bid, then #2's bid would have stopped at $202,000 under Ebay rules. But if #1 was not blocked, then the bid would have stopped at $260,000 under the same rules. You have to know #2's max bid to ascertain the probable outcome with #1's bid being valid, otherwise all you get from a reported $202,000 is #3's max bid.

 

I am certainly not getting in the middle of this discussion, but for the record, I lost an auction for a car in a similar manner. I did not realize that ebay needs to verify the bidder prior to a large $ bid. This was not an ebay mistake but their policy. The annoying thing is that it is not stated clearly anywhere, and most of us do not realize this until we try to bid. No problem if the auction is ongoing, but I tried to bid for the first time at the end of the auction and lost out. If anyone who has not bid on a large item wants to do so, better to make sure that they are verified before doing so.

 

I understand this is how it works and I did make an assumption based on the tone of the thread.
I can't be positive, but I will bet that I'm correct in my assertion that it was a win for the OP.

 

Friends,

I am curious if the other buyers pays the 275K. I dont think these cars are worth that, however nothing will surprise me. I think sooner or later the market will crash like it did before, $500,000 Dinos? I guess the market is what someone is willing to pay, but sooner or later reality must hit…..

FWIW I am looking for one also, but it has to be red…. Plus I will never buy a car that I have not at least seen in person and hoping the seller will be someone that I can build a relationship with. To me these are not like regular cars changing hands. I would never sell a Ferrari I loved to someone unless I was sure he would love and take car of the car. This car seems nice though, good luck to both buyer and seller.

Rob

 

I don't know the car and got into this thread pretty much by accident as I usually focus more on cars than on sales.
Whatever was the outcome, if it is true the car was fully restored including engine by Bruno Wyss in Switzerland, I guess the total price seem very close to a full restoration. You are right if and when market crashes,as seen in the nineties, you cannot recoup the cost of restoration.
But as of today a full restoration in Europe in best places including total strip down, some metal work, full interior including seats, carpets, lining, doors, engine, transmission, brakes, electrics , chroming, etc will not get you lower than 250 k usd. Nor Paul Russell or Wayne Obry, I am sure on the other side of the Atlantic.

Having said that, I would be interested to know when this car was restored as restoration age quickly.

I remember a fully restored grey C4 being sold many years ago for what was already a record price at that time. If same car,,,,then would need refreshing to be top, even if it did not ( or because it did not) run during this period. I am re restoring a car that was restored by first class people in the seventies and eighties and drove less than 500 miles during this period...and yes it needs a full restoration if you intend to put it to Pebble level.

Actually I checked and modified the post, the car was sold in 2003 at the Gstaad auction ( where the Lepeltier collection was sold as well) just after the restoration. So yes it will need some heavy maintenance to have a concours car, on the other hand if the car was properly maintained and starting with a high quality restoration, many years of enjoyment for the future with a classic Ferrari and with none of the depreciation hopefully of a brand new one.

 

#16057 is back. Fantasy Junction has it for $395,000. That's £230k sterling...

1972 Ferrari 365 GTC/4

 

Intersting point from someone with first hand experience. Could you elaborate on this? What do you mean with a full restoration? I'm curious because I can't imagine a car that's been restored once and consequently put away needing yet another full restoration.

What can happen to a car in this case that it needs a new repaint, re-uphostery and so on? I do think one needs to check the car technically (fuel lines etc) and replacing oil and what not, but I'm obviously underestimating the matter. So I'd like to learn from your experience. Thanks!

Best, Peter

 

Did it really gain 100K in 6 months??? If it is so great why is the new owner selling it??

 

Gooding 365 GTC4 sold for 320 $, how good it was ?

 

Again Olczyk showing up ... who is still trusting any post from this crap ?